Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Dang... dare I say that I might finally have done enough reading to be getting a feel for this? I did cover the FT this morning even though I was concerned about the fish becoming..... ummm.... depressed, blind? Maybe I just felt sorry for them being in the dark for days, but I covered 3/4s of the tank top anyway this morning before I had to leave town.

Thanks for the description of different water colors. I would say the color is a "tea" color, so finally I'm not getting more bad news. I'll report back in a couple days when I return home.

I signed up for a 4 day course in Santa Cruz given by NorCal Aquaponics. Shall I report on the course, or is that not appropriate for this forum?

$525 for an AP course, a bit steep I think, everything you need to know is right here.

By all means.... it would be good to hear just what people are offering...

I'll start a new thread for that. Which forum board category would you like that to be in?

Stick under "International"...

Just as a matter of interest, and since withholding food from goldfish has been mentioned a few times already in this thread, an experiment conducted back in the '70s proved that goldfish can last many weeks without food. The experimenter placed some goldfish in an inert environment, ie no plants, gravel, etc, but just glass and water. As I recall, the purpose of the experiment was to determine how long it would take for the goldfish to die, presumably of starvation. The experiment was ended prematurely after about 46 days with no fish deaths recorded. That is six weeks plus!
It would seem, then, that one is unlikely to lose goldfish after two, three or even four weeks of withholding food from them, if the cycle state requires such an action. Food for thought.

Today's update:
1) I made a mistake in my scoria pH test. In determining whether it was my source water which was pH high or the scoria, I dropped a few pieces of scoria into distilled water and the pH rose immediately. But I made a mistake in that I should have washed the scoria in distilled water first, discarded that water, and then dropped a few pieces of scoria into NEW distilled water for testing. My scoria is pH neutral. So now I only need to find a pH neutral water source (rain, neighbors, dehumidifier... any other ideas for getting 200 gallons?) and change it out slowly. My question is, how slowly? I've read somewhere that pH changes should not be more than 1 pH/day... or is it 0.1 pH/day?

2) FT water is still a tea color, although I would suggest it's darker than a weak tea and more like a strong tea. The goldfish are all still alive, at least none are floating and I don't see any on the bottom although visibility is a bit difficult.

3) I have not fed them in 4 days now. I understand I don't need to, I'm only reporting.

4) Chemistry is still the same although pH rose a bit.

ph 8.4 (although I tested early in the morning. Does temp affect pH a bit?)
ammonia 0.25 ppm
nitrite 0 ppm
nitrate 0 ppm

Next actions:
1) find a new water source
2) begin water changes
3) don't feed until water clears to a weak tea color
Right?

Another thought... can I get water from my local creek if the pH is right? I've read to add SOME water from a nearby creek for getting the bacteria started, but what about having my entire system be creek water?

I was told, "Driftwood brings down the pH"... so I grabbed a bunch from the beach and it's now soaking in the sump tank.

It will... but very slowly... and the system pH will fall over time naturally anyway...

I am no expert on this, Scupper, but I reckon it depends on the quality of your creek. If there are fish swimming in it then maybe it is fine. If, on closer examination, the said fish appear to have two heads or three eyes then maybe it is not so good. There may just be a heavy metal polluter a few km upstream from you that you don't know about. Paying for a detailed analysis of the creek water may be the prudent option.
Don't you miss the days when you could be quite confident about simple things like the water quality of a flowing stream?

As the driftwood releases its tannins, be prepared for your water to go a few shades of darker brown.

Update:
Added lots of driftwood to sump
Added a sock full of peat moss to one GB so the sock fills & drains
Only one goldfish has died in the last week.
Plants are looking very yellow.
Found a local source of pH 7.2 water. Have added/exchanged about 80 gallons (200 gallon total system)
System is now 4 weeks old

pH is still 8.3
ammonia still 0.25ppm
nitrite still 0
nitrate still 0

I'm thinking it's time to add a few more goldfish. The ammonia has never exceeded 0.25ppm in this system and I check it every day which tells me (I am a newbie however) that the bacteria has always been present and able to handle what little ammonia is being made or it would have risen by now.

I realize that with such high pH, ammonia becomes more toxic and so I have to be careful and add only a couple more goldfish at a time. I'm hoping the driftwood and peat moss will kick in allowing the ammonia to rise a bit higher without killing the fish.

I guess my question is, can the nitrification process happen in a such a slow and subtle way that you never see a rise and fall in ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates?

Is it time to add more goldfish?

Nope.

..be patient my friend.....be patient.

No more fish, grap a beer and wait.

How about adding a tiny amount of acid to slowly bring the ph down? Worst case it gives you a better ammonia tolerance