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 Post subject: Re: Fish dying. Help!
PostPosted: May 5th, '16, 15:07 
Most of those sprays are heavier then air so they will settle to the ground. If the sump is low it could have been loaded up along with all of your GBs. I would ask the guy. Hey how about next time you spray, Let me know! Then cover everything for the day. Plants also. There has been several people post here that they have the same problem. Let the guy know you have fish outside and this stuff kills them. Some people will be nice enough to let you know while others don't care. Hope you can get it cleaned out. It will take a lot of water to get it all out. If you can! It would be an AP nightmare if you had to toss out the media and plants.

Does your sump have a cover?


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 Post subject: Re: Fish dying. Help!
PostPosted: May 6th, '16, 07:16 

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When the weather is cold I use an insulated board over the sump. I also sometimes use a floating raft in the sump to grow lettuce. I have a canvas shade for the lettuce which could easily double as a sump cover.

Man, I really hope I don't have to throw out hundreds of dollars of hydroton! Hopefully I can just flush it through.


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 Post subject: Re: Fish dying. Help!
PostPosted: May 6th, '16, 08:57 
Can you isolate your FT. turn 2 valves and send any GB water to just the sump?

If it is the problem of sprays, maybe you can dilute the problem to a minimum.

I have never had your problem because I am inside with the fish. But this is my idea. It is up to you what you want to try.

1) I would get the FT off line ASAP. Drain 30% of the FT water and then do a running change of water if I could. I make a mark at the level, turn on the drain and the fill and let it drain and refill for a day. This is not at full blast, I only use a 1/4 inch hose for the fill so it is rather slow. My water comes in colder then the tank so I place the fill line near the air bubbles or in the filter return to mix it. I would add a temp cheap floss filter if needed to clean the tank. A bucket over the FT with floss inside and a hundred small holes in the bottom and run it from the FT pump. On our outside Sell fish to eat tanks we used a large plastic dish drainer They look like a giant Net cup and can also be used for sifting gravel. Cheap. The goal is to save the fish right now and give them good clean water. Forget the plants for a moment.

2) drain and clean the sump. rinse it out well. Refill it at least twice and drain twice. Scrub the pump and all walls. If it comes apart real easy I would do it and clean the parts inside also. A lot of impellers get caked after time and it impedes the flow. If you have to break seals and don't understand it, soak it in hot water and see if a bunch of crap comes out when you start it up (not in the sump) When ready just run the sump to the sump for while to get it turning and degassing. Add air if you can.

3) If you can isolate each GB, I would. I would also drain and refill them several times. Even using a garden hose on the top to spray them down. When you think you are ready, use the water out of the FT drain to refill them the last time and keep them flowing to the sump, by-passing the FT.

4) If you move 30% of the FT water to the beds, even if by hand, the fish water should keep clean and free of high levels, ammonia and Nitrites. Use clean make up water and let the GB drain to the sump.

5) I would keep the FT off line like this till I was sure the fish are no longer going to die on me.

6) Since the GB and Sump are now isolated from the Ft, you could try to put a fish in the sump and see if it lives for a week. If the water has been cleaned and harmful pollutants removed it should do fine.

7) If it dies in a day or 2 then you have bigger problems to task.

8) IMO every AP FT should be able to run in isolation if needed. A couple of cheap ball valves can save a tank of Fishies. The moment you saw them going belly up I would have turned the valves and isolated the tank. All tanks should be prepped to be able to go it on their own.

9) Any GB can be watered by hand if need be. Think of it as a long term power shortage and your backup would only run the FT air and filter. If only air then have an air lift to the filter.

10) Keep as much emergency water somewhere that is kept or treated to be able to use in a minutes notice. I have enough of it so I could always bucket my fish in different water. You would need a collection of buckets with many AP fish or just toss them in what ever is holding the water and add air stones. On my hold water I always bubble it for 3 days then cap it off. I use the 30 liter plastic jugs. In the case we ever get into survival mode it is the water that we would also drink. So it has a double duty. 30 liters is about the max I am willing to carry if there are stairs around. Do not mix this water with the ft water. I net the fish, Pull them out of the net one at a time by hand, shake the water out of the gills and toss them into the bucket. Never lost one doing that. It is the same way I put them in. I never ever mix waters. I have learned that lesson the hard way.

China story: When they deliver several thousand eating fish to the market, they use a water truck that looks like a septic truck to me. It has a hatch and a large 6 or 10 inch valve in the bottom rear. They pull up to a stocking pond and open it up. Fish come flying out. when the water level gets low, some guy with boots on gets into the tank and shovels the remaining fish to the drain. any fish too large get tossed in the air to the ground where another catches it in a net or by hand. After the restock, the vendors will come by and pull what they need to sell. All of that just takes a few minutes and they make many trips a day. People eat a lot of fish here. Take a look on Google Earth and you will see a fish farm where ever there is a supply of water. One we saw yesterday has 18 ponds. What an AP system he could have, yet they waste all the water down the drain.

I hope that the stuff that entered your system is water soluble and you can dilute it down to almost gone. If it is like DDT then it will never go away. Maybe you can ask him what he used and call the company for advise. There might be something simple to add to make it neutral. I don't think you will ever need to toss out all of the media but it could be a very hard job to get the contamination out of it. Cross that bridge only if needed.

While doing all of this, look real well for any other objects/liquids than might have fallen into or placed in your GBs. My kids friends will sometimes toss crap in the Ft just for fun. Hey do fish drink milk? It is now off limits to them to even touch it. And it has a 100% cover.

There are many APers here that have many years of running AP problems, I am sure one of them will chime in and also help out. I am still rather new to this AP stuff but I can call of 40 years of mechanical engineering to solve simple water contamination problems. Liquids are liquids and can be purged.

Don't worry about the GBs being off line. I took My test 1 off line now for 3 months. Just top off with FT water and it is actually doing better. My guess is more air to the roots and I have the drain level too high.

Good Luck. Save the fish!


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 Post subject: Re: Fish dying. Help!
PostPosted: May 6th, '16, 13:41 
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I realize this is a pain in the ... and I'm not entirely convinced your system was contaminated but if you're reasonably sure that the spray contaminated your system then the whole system should be flushed out.

Find out what was sprayed and at what concentration. Check and see if the label indicates danger to fish or contraindicates use near water.

You may want to post back with the info on what was used.

Deuem wrote:
IMO every AP FT should be able to run in isolation if needed. A couple of cheap ball valves can save a tank of Fishies. The moment you saw them going belly up I would have turned the valves and isolated the tank. All tanks should be prepped to be able to go it on their own.


While this sounds good in some ways, I think by the time you see the fish have problems it's probably too late. The main reason to isolate at this point is to get the grow beds and sump cleaned out without doing any further harm. Some herbicides and pesticides that break down quickly when exposed to air are persistent in sediments and many of these sediments wind up in the grow bed and sump so if you want to flush these out of your grow beds you need to disconnect them from the system so that nothing held in the sediment makes it to the fish. It might also be good to use a fines filter to remove suspended solids from the water since these can also form complexes with pesticides and herbicides. Grow beds aren't very good at taking suspended solids out of the water.

Sorry you're having to deal with this, hope this information helps.


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 Post subject: Re: Fish dying. Help!
PostPosted: May 6th, '16, 15:34 
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Have you approached the neighbour to determine just WHAT he used, and that he in fact DID use something..
Likely ROUNDUP..???
..


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 Post subject: Re: Fish dying. Help!
PostPosted: May 6th, '16, 20:01 
The worst problem any fish owner can have is bad water and not knowing it. Some places will do a pretty good water test in a lab for not a lot of money. Look for a government place. They will give you a test tube kit to fill. Even my tap water was fine to point, used as is for 8 years straight into the tank and then, BOOM, all fish died. Something changed that was out of my control. Did they do any road work on the pipes. Did you solder any water pipes.

If it is Round Up. Monsanto Strikes again. AP fish killing in a bottle. You will need to buy GMO fish that don't reproduce and purchased from them and then you can feed them Round Up. They will be sterile and can live packed solid in ice and eat radioactive bugs but no pesticides will kill them then.
:upset:


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 Post subject: Re: Fish dying. Help!
PostPosted: May 6th, '16, 20:44 
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Deuem wrote:
The worst problem any fish owner can have is bad water and not knowing it. Some places will do a pretty good water test in a lab for not a lot of money. Look for a government place. They will give you a test tube kit to fill. Even my tap water was fine to point, used as is for 8 years straight into the tank and then, BOOM, all fish died. Something changed that was out of my control. Did they do any road work on the pipes. Did you solder any water pipes.

If it is Round Up. Monsanto Strikes again. AP fish killing in a bottle. You will need to buy GMO fish that don't reproduce and purchased from them and then you can feed them Round Up. They will be sterile and can live packed solid in ice and eat radioactive bugs but no pesticides will kill them then.
:upset:



LOL dont get me started on Monsanto... :upset: :D


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 Post subject: Re: Fish dying. Help!
PostPosted: May 7th, '16, 12:56 
A bit off topic while we wait for the OP to figure out what is going on.

Another new business that Monsanto started in 1999 in Asia is aquaculture.

They will come after all AP people in our life time. Wait and see.

Monsanto Moves To Control Water
Resources & Fish Farming
http://rense.com/general20/re.htm

WHAT did I just read?
They want to Privatize the water and control it. First in Mexico and then India.

Bottom line is they want to run the world and we all are letting them do it. We will all be drinking GMO water that is BETTER for us. And all AP units will be forcibly removed from our land. I'm sorry Mr APer, didn't you know that all the water you used was ours so now we own the plants that used it. Wait and see. They are going to take people to the breaking point. As it is India has farmers are killing themselves because they can not get cotton to grow anymore. All the seeds are sterile.

Does each one of your fish have a Monsanto license? Are they drinking Roundup every day.

Think we all have problems now!


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 Post subject: Re: Fish dying. Help!
PostPosted: May 8th, '16, 00:42 
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Deuem wrote:
A bit off topic while we wait for the OP to figure out what is going on.

Another new business that Monsanto started in 1999 in Asia is aquaculture.

They will come after all AP people in our life time. Wait and see.

Monsanto Moves To Control Water
Resources & Fish Farming
http://rense.com/general20/re.htm

WHAT did I just read?
They want to Privatize the water and control it. First in Mexico and then India.

Bottom line is they want to run the world and we all are letting them do it. We will all be drinking GMO water that is BETTER for us. And all AP units will be forcibly removed from our land. I'm sorry Mr APer, didn't you know that all the water you used was ours so now we own the plants that used it. Wait and see. They are going to take people to the breaking point. As it is India has farmers are killing themselves because they can not get cotton to grow anymore. All the seeds are sterile.

Does each one of your fish have a Monsanto license? Are they drinking Roundup every day.

Think we all have problems now!



Corporate greed knows no bounds. How can someone own the water? What they are going for is pretty obvious, We will have to use their seeds, their fertilizer, and their water. Otherwise, it wont grow. If it gets to that point, they will really have us by the marbles. I grow only heirloom, non gmo here where I am. I dont use chemical fertilizers, insecticides, or herbicides. I refuse to buy into their, schemes. I wish, more people would jump on board.


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 Post subject: Re: Fish dying. Help!
PostPosted: May 8th, '16, 09:30 
To own a water source even here is pretty easy. Just lease or buy the head flow area of every good stream with drinkable water. Almost every single one of them here is behind barb wire gates now. Followed by a fish farm or many. By the time it leaves the area it is no longer drinkable for us. All one would need to do is to buy them and control all the clean mountain water in an entire area. Then bottle or sell what the farm does not need. All of the mountain fish farms are fill and overflow ponds. the more water they have the cleaner the ponds are. By the time you get to the third or fourth pond they are all murky water. Or even a marsh land area. If you want the good clean water they will sell it to you. One place had about 20 flow pipes with meters on them going to farmer fields down the mountain. All we have been doing is searching for stream heads for the past few months. Most we are locked out of. Barbed gates and big barking dogs.

At some point in time a company like Monsanto will make them an offer they can't refuse and then all the water will be owned by outsiders. All the fish will be changed out for GMO fish and we will lose nature again.


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 Post subject: Re: Fish dying. Help!
PostPosted: Sep 17th, '16, 07:09 

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It looks like it was Roundup. I drained the FT, sump, and grow beds, rinsed the insides, flushed the grow beds, etc. The system is back online and running like new with fish doing great. Thanks for all the advice.


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 Post subject: Re: Fish dying. Help!
PostPosted: Sep 17th, '16, 19:59 
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So glad to hear. What a nightmare though. Glad that's over.


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