Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Here is another slant to think about: Talking to my doctor that I have known for over 20 years. He told me if ever there is a a war or something really bad happens like earthquake, flood. DON'T bother with supermarkets go to a vet surgery or a pet barn and get as much dry pet food (dog/cat) as you can carry. It has all the vitamins and minerals to sustain life reasonably well.

Just putting another log on the fire lol.

Sustaining life reasonably well... is not the same as optimising growth though...

Yea, what we do when the collapse of civilization happens to survive is likely a long stretch from what those of us who are looking to feed our food the healthiest stuff so when we eat them we are healthy.

Keep in mind that commercial fish feeds (the ones that fish farmers use, not the ornamental goldfish food meant to keep maintenance of the pond or aquarium to a minimum or the pond diets meant only as supplements to natural pond living animals that get their primary nutrition from natural sources and we are only feeding them the grain based pond feed pellets to help fatten them up to be caught for sport) are developed to grow fish to be marketable as quickly as possible. Lots of university research has gone into looking at the nutrition of different feed elements and alternatives as well as the vitamin/mineral admixtures appropriate for different types of fish during different seasons and growth stages.

Trying to save money and make due with some other form of "cheaper" pet feed may turn out to be a bit of false economy if that feed doesn't provide good protein levels for the fish (most land based food animals don't eat as high a protein % as even catfish and tilapia) Fish don't have to work as hard to just stand around because they are floating in water so their metabolism can concentrate more on converting feed to flesh since they don't have to expend as much energy (use as many carbs) to stay warm and stand about.

Also, using feed that is not designed for use in a recirculating aquaculture system can cause water quality problems and lots of solid wastes that are not well digested by either the fish or the aquaponics system. Those poorly digested wastes equal nutrients that don't become quickly or easily usable by plants and are likely to goop up filters or grow beds.

Remember that for good plant growth, you need to feed the system and good high quality balanced feed. If the fish are not getting a good balance of nutrition, the plants will probably be suffering too and then you wind up having to spend more money supplementing for the plants or simply suffering with poor plant production.

These are all things to take into account when doing your figuring or experimenting. I would generally advise for a new system to use a high quality fish feed that others in your area have had good results with so that you can learn a base line for productivity and operation using something that is already tried and true then once you become more experienced, if you still wish to start experimenting with the feed, you have something to compare your results to. (Keeping in mind that even with a good fish feed, the first six months of operation of an aquaponics system is likely to feel a bit slow since the bacteria are still colonizing and the system is immature.)

Nikenik I just noticed your avatar.

Salad Fingers is some creepy s&#t ....

Nikenik

i checked and its 30% protein, 15% fat and 10% fiber.

Doesn't state the source of the protein but I suspect that if one whip it hard enough it might neigh!

TCLynx, you make some good and valid arguments. Using words like "marketable", "false economy" and "protein levels". It make sense but I can't drop the feeling something is wrong.

Just using fish feed because every one else does it and the company that makes the feed says it designed specially for optimal fish growth makes me a bit suspicious when I look at the ingredients in fish feed and other pet food.
Especially when I can't figure out the difference between the rabbit food and the fish food, except for the level of protein.
Just because the manufacturer puts a rabbit on the front instead of a koi and says it's "specially designed for brown&white rabbits" then changes the label and says "especially for koi and their colourings" doesn't make it so.

And all the vitamin supplements that is added is to me a bit odd. If you eat healthy fresh food you don't need extra vitamins made in a lab. Can't be different for the fish...

And the commercial fish feed is often not sustainable.

I'm strongly leaning towards making my own fish feed...
Getting the right protein level with some homemade fish meal, worms or BSF and then feeding them vegetables and different grains. Needs a bit more research before I have some recipes but...

Gabe: if it doesn't say what meat it is it's probably chicken left over from the poultry industry.

SuperVeg: Couldn't think of a more fitting avatar for a forum that grows fish and veg.

By the way, I haven't debated in english since I was 14, I just read the stuff. So if I start saying things like "....well...that's....just...like.....your opinion...man!" please be patient. =)

Take note that I'm not necessarily saying the way things are is in any way good but
In fish farming, feed is the primary operational cost so the farmers that are trying to make their living or even simply keep their farm from going bankrupt from farming fish, are going to be looking for the feed that is cheapest yet gives them the best results at the same time.

Now the type of fish being farmed and where it is being farmed is going to have a huge impact on the feeds chosen. Where I am, it's too hot for trout or salmon so we are not growing them. (Those fish are likely to be using more of the wild caught fishmeal in their feed formulations, I haven't spent much time researching those fish or feeds since there is no chance I will be growing them on my farm.) Anyway, much of the fish meal used in fish feed is byproduct of the fish industry. Catfish and tilapia feed made in the south central US is going to be using wastes from the catfish farming industry to fill the fish meal portion of the feed, and then it will likely be corn, soy and poultry byproducts. Now if you want to go searching for "organic fish feeds" the price is going to skyrocket. And the assumption that vitamin and mineral admixtures are not needed in animal feeds because the feeds will be of such nutrient dense high quality ingredients... Yea I know they say if you eat a diet of lots of good nutrient rich foods that you don't need to take vitamins, but what if you live in a region where the soil is depleted of certain minerals? Remember that much of the farm land that is growing the staple ingredients for much of the animal feed has been primarily fertilized with just the basic minimal fertilizers to get good growth. This means that lots of the food we and our animals eat is grown on nutrient mined soil and will be lacking more of the trace elements than we may like. Grassing animals are supplied with salt licks and supplemental minerals (often designed for specific local soil conditions and these animals are supposedly eating the best natural diets out there.)

Anyway.
There are many discussions on creating your own fish feed. If you have only a small aquaponic system and plenty of extra space and feed to feed your feed, you can likely grown and make some of your own fish feed. This is going to take lots of research and time. Growing enough varied stuff to say feed 12 tilapia will probably take space and attention beyond the space of the system you are growing the tilapia in. As in if you want to grow veggies from the waste of your 12 tilapia, you can't use the waste from your 12 tilapia to grow duckweed to be the tilapia's food.
1- the duckweed would use all the nutrients from the tilapia so you would have no nutrients left to grow your veggies.
2-duckweed is not a complete feed for tilapia and you can really only replace 50% of their diet with duckweed before you see a decline in growth.

I have seen people get very upset when informed that they have to put something into the system in order to get something out. Sunshine is not the only necessary ingredient needed to grow plants. The fish feed we give our fish is the basis for us being able to harvest veggies and fish from the system at a later date. If you try to make your aquaponics into a perpetual motion machine you will likely be frustrated with the results. To grow things to feed your fish you will have to have separate systems that get fertilized or fed some how to provide the nutrients to grow the fish feed.

There are many other "supplemental" food sources people talk about for feeding their fish like BSF larva, or worms, or maggots, or other bugs, etc. Keep in mind that all of these can really only be supplements or treats since a diet to high in any of them is usually going to be too high in FAT. I do know of people who have processed worms or BSF larva, (grind them up, render them and then dry out the protein meal from them) but the amount of work involved in processing bug protein meal to replace fish meal in a home made fish feed recipe is likely to get one banned from the kitchen. (You would need a separate fish food processing facility since I know the cook would likely lock me out of the house if he ever caught me trying to render worms in his kitchen.)

Now if one wants to be really "green" you can research green water culture. This is not necessarily functional within an aquaponics system because the algae would steel the nutrients and cause other problems for growing veggies, but solar algae ponds are a way to feed tilapia with probably the most minimal fertilization. This won't necessarily allow you to grow lots of veggies though but if you were to grow algae in a separate system then maybe you could dry it and along with the other supplemental feed stocks develop some home brew feed.

And of course one would need to be sending samples of inputs for the feed off for nutritional analysis and then probably sending samples of the completed feed for nutritional analysis if one wanted to be able to compare their home made feed with the purchased feed. Finally once you manage to develop your home made feed, how do you actually turn your recipe into something you can actually feed your fish? The machines used to make animal feed pellets are usually not that cheap and if you want pellets that will float rather than sinking and breaking up (so you can't tell if the fish are eating it) it gets even more complex.
Now I did once attempt to make some home recipe fish food. and small batches could be made by hand or perhaps using pasta making equipment or a meat grinder with the blade removed but the tedium and time to make just one baking sheet worth of feed........
Well, if I go work, I make enough per hour to make it worth while to go buy some fish feed, instead of spending 4 hours a day just to make food for the fish for the day.

It's really interesting discussing the economy of farming. It quickly turns in to a question about philosophy if you live in the "real world" or want to live in a perfect world.

I believe that food is to cheap. Because we make it from unsustainable resources and transport them all around the world just to get the cheapest price.
Do you know it's cheaper to buy steak from Brazil then it is to buy something produced locally here in Sweden? And I'm not talking about local organic food, just regular "cheap" mass produced beef.

Many (all?) people say "If I go to work I can afford the Brazilian steak and the clothes made in Vietnam, build a house, buy a new car and add to my debts", that's the market we live in. But I say "I'm moving out of the city and starting a small holding with a cows, a couple of pigs, some chickens, potato patches and a big aquaponics system. Don't care about cost vs. time, I just want to feed myself and for the animals I keep to live a full life up until slaughter."

The price for organic chicken is 4 times that of a "ordinary" cheap chicken feed on GMO soy, corn and wheat, with the vitamins added of course.
I would like too think that organic fish feed, that's more expensive is worth it, because you can charge more for the product.
But as for me right now I think I'd have to put in the time and make my own fish feed if I were to move out of my apartment.
Will probably buy some fish pellets AND rabbit food, and make some of my own.

If there were mineral deficiencies in the food that is grown and sold it would say so on the packet. The health and food department (in my country) takes test on every food product sold and list them, if not on the packet at least on the internet. So if you want to know the magnesium content in lentils sold in sweden you can look it up. Most of the time it says so on the back of the label.
I eat healthy, but to much, and have excellent blood values. Haven't taken a vitamin supplement in 10 years. I do eat lots of herbs, vegs and fruit and so on. I guess I could feed the fish some as well.

As for a "closed self sufficient aquaponics system" I know that something like that does not exist. But I dream of a small holding that doesn't waste anything. You compost your food scraps in a worm bin and feed the worms to the fish. You make beer and cider from your small orchard and grain crops, and feed the leftovers to the fish. Compost your own waste in to fertilzer for the dirt garden, where you grow herbs and veg, and feed some to the fish etc.
But of course I would make more money if I just worked in marketing and bought my fish pellets...

Hi Nikenik
It's quite easy for you to get the propper fish feed from either Norway or Denmark where it's ilegall to mix in GMO produce when or if the fish fed is destind for human consumptian, allso organic fish feed is, and have been available, for the last 10-15 years at afordablle prices.
Pet fish fod does not hold the same standards by any means differente regulations all togheter, but if you do buy pet fish food stick to the import from holland or sweedish.

This is a easy reciepie if you want to make it, at home.
http://www.skretting.no/Internet/Skrett ... enDocument

cheers

I know a guy who feeds cat food to his tilapia and they seem to grow pretty fast on it. He said he pays about $12 for a 10lb bag so I dont see any savings on going that route. I'm paying $45 for 50lb bag of Tilapia food from a feed store so i'm not sure why he even bothers. However comparing protien I believe he said its 25% which is farily close to Tilapia feed.

14 bucks for 25 lbs, this is what I feed.

http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/s ... _vc=-10005

I hear you Nikenik,
And I do rather envy some of you in Europe. Here in the USA there is no escaping the GMO's to the point that we are suffering all sorts of diseases that really didn't exist a couple generations ago.

Anyway, I share a similar hope to have a small holding and grow food. I'm starting out by purchasing commercial feed (unfortunately our feed standards are not so great) but do what you can with what is to hand and keep trying to improve on it.

SolTun: Thanks for the recipe! I pm'ed you about where to buy fish feed in Norway.

For those of you who doesn't read Norwegian the recipe was basically 500g whole wheat, 1,25kg of fishmeal, 500g soymeal, 2dl fish oil, a few vitamin and mineral pills and one pill of Astaxanthin. Grind it up, add water,bake in the oven and dry it..

TCLynx: I've read some about the american food industry, it doesn't seem to be doing much good for anyone... Have you seen the documentary "King Corn"? About two guy's, who never eat veg only fast food, that find out that almost all of their diet comes from corn...

But looks like you're well on your way to becoming a small holder. And I envy all the sun hours and heat you get year round down in Florida.

And just because one uses what feed is available and affordable doesn't make one a bad guy. You do the best you can with what you have...

I think I've decided to try make my own fish feed, but buy a bag of that organic fish feed SolTun was talking about just to get me started.
I think I'll go ice fishing during the winter to get some fish for my fish meal. I know a place nearby where you can quite easily get 50 big herrings in a day. Should be labour-intensive but not take more then one day catching, filleting, grinding and drying the fish to have a good supply of fish meal for my feed.

Why bother filleting? I would just grind up the herring whole.

I'm guessing the fish guts and shit would smell awful when cooking it if I don't remove them.
I'd meant I would just take the guts out and grind the fish with head and bones still attached. Can't find the word for it... "Cleaning" the fish?