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How do I lower my tank's PH
http://byap.backyardmagazines.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8274		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  mweidner [ Sep 28th, '10, 10:56 ]
Post subject:  How do I lower my tank's PH
So question for you guys, what do I need to do to lower my PH in my tank? It hovers right around 7.8 - 8.0, from my reading it seems that its pretty easy to raise your PH but a bit harder to lower it.

My water is just city water, I add the stuff to neutralize the additives from the city, but the water right out of the tap is 7.8 - 8.0. I am hoping to start collecting rain water, but I am not sure I can get that in place before winter.

My system is indoors and is about 40 gallons.

Thank You.
Author:  ivansng [ Sep 28th, '10, 12:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: How do I lower my tank's PH
mweidner wrote:
So question for you guys, what do I need to do to lower my PH in my tank? It hovers right around 7.8 - 8.0, from my reading it seems that its pretty easy to raise your PH but a bit harder to lower it.


I would tend to say that it is actually easier to lower pH and raise it, once your system is mature. The nitrification process actually lowers pH naturally.
Author:  Jamey [ Sep 28th, '10, 18:00 ]
Post subject:  How do I lower my tank's PH
+1
Author:  BNDYBEAR [ Sep 28th, '10, 18:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: How do I lower my tank's PH
Simple answer is TIME. My tap water was around the 8 mark out of the tap so after oxygenation settles at around 8.2-8.4. Tryed acid to bring it down for ages but my system was consistently high for many many months before eventually settling to around 7.8. HAve been using tank/rain water for the last 12 months which straight from the tank is PH6 or below. My system now sits at a nice 7-7.2, perfect. Although I must be carefull when topping up with tank water which may be alot lower than I think.
Author:  BlueThumb [ Sep 28th, '10, 19:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: How do I lower my tank's PH
I too ran with high pH issues from my local supply water. It ran mid to high 8's, which seemed to hinder bacterial manifestation, coupled with making the total ammonia level in my system more toxic and leaving me with mineral lockout and stumped growth.

The optimum pH range for Nitrosomonas is between 7.8-8.0, and the optimum pH range for Nitrobacter is between 7.3-7.5.

Is your system cycled as yet? If you're saying 'no, its not', then IMO, I would consider INITIALLY lowering the pH to a level sub-8.0 to create an optimal environment to assist bacterial colonisation. As discussed above, as the system matures, the pH will drop as acid is produced by bacterial by-product.

How do you lower it? With acid! And very carefully!!

Take a look at this

Empirically, people talk of lowering pH as far more challenging than raising it. ... Particularly if you have a lot of mineral hardness in your water supply. The higher or harder the mineral buffer, the harder it is going to be to lower the pH. But! It is possible!

My pH was tackled by HCL down to around 7.2ish, and now sits well under 6.8 and stablized.

Raising the pH can be done by numerous methods, all of which are far simpler than the above and can be done IN MODERATION by either small topical doses (ie. eco-rose - potassium bicarbonate) or adding shell grit to the water flow or GB.


Keep you pH adjustments subtle - no more than - say - 0.2 point every 24 hours.

You also mentioned 'water treatments'? What water treatments do you refer to? Aquaria water treatments are best-left out of the AP arena. You are at the top of the food chain in your lil backyard ecocosm and wouldn't want any nasty chemicals (as used in aquaria products) in your nor your families tummies!

You said it yourself - rain water is best!

BTx
Author:  BlueThumb [ Sep 28th, '10, 20:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: How do I lower my tank's PH
... Oh, just read your system post. If your system IS cycled, then other than the mineral hardness of your water, look into the media (or other additives) within your system that may be bumping your pH up (ie. calcium in limestone?) consistently and keeping it high!

BTx
Author:  mweidner [ Sep 28th, '10, 21:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: How do I lower my tank's PH
So with my water, it is about 7.8-8.0 PH right out of the tap, if I leave it in a bucket with a bubbler for 24 hours it is still the same, and that is what my system has been for about a year, the PH never changes more than 2/10ths either way.

The only reason I have been thinking about trying to change it is a rash of fish deaths. Little history:

My system has been running for almost 3 years, in the last three months however I lost all my original fish (feeder goldfish as well). I determined it was a nitrite spike that caused the deaths (and a bad test kit, it was showing normal nitrite levels until I bought a new kit). From what I could tell I had a nitrite spike because I didn't have enough plants growing to remove the Nitrate.

I just upgraded my system from a 20 gallon tank to a 50 gallon tank and added another GB, the original GB is still in place, I have all new fish, but I have been losing about 2 a day, I can't see anything wrong with the living fish, they have been eating well, and the dead ones don't look like they were hurt physically, and their scales and such look fine, no bloating, etc.

I have been testing ever two days since I put in the new fish, so far the Ammonia and Nitrite levels have been zero and the Nitrate levels have been climbing steadily, currently at 20.
Author:  TCLynx [ Sep 28th, '10, 23:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: How do I lower my tank's PH
Hum. What kind of fish?

The main reason people want to lower pH is because of the plants but if your plants have been doing ok then the higher pH should not be hurting the fish unless they are some type that actually wants lower pH or soft water or something like that. The between 7 and 8 pH is actually best for the bio-filters once established.

You mention treating scheme water and I really don't know much about dealing with that since we have good well water here (though hard and high pH) so I don't know if something from that might be building up or could be causing any issues.

First things I would want to check into before going crazy with any acids would be to test for salt levels and metals like copper and zinc.
Author:  mweidner [ Sep 29th, '10, 00:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: How do I lower my tank's PH
It is just a bunch of feeder goldfish, I have had them for about 10 days now I would guess, if you want to see what the system currently look like you can see it at http://www.kd8itx.com/myaquaponicsystem.php

I will check and post what I have been using to neutralize the chlorine based chemicals (can't remember the name of the one that you can't get rid of by leaving it with a bubbler in it).

Also, any suggestions on a test kit I can get to check the various metals? I just did a quick search and the tests I found were really expensive and I wasn't sure it was the correct thing.
Author:  TCLynx [ Sep 29th, '10, 01:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: How do I lower my tank's PH
I know API (they sell the freshwater master test kit also sells a similar one for copper that can't be too expensive since I bought it. I don't know about zinc.)

Of course with cheap feeder goldfish, there is a chance that they were not healthy stock to begin with and it isn't uncommon for such fish to die soon anyway since they were intended to be eaten soon and some places don't keep them in good conditions.

Hopefully some one near your location might have some ideas to help you out.
Author:  keith [ Sep 29th, '10, 02:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: How do I lower my tank's PH
you're the closes ap'er i've met on this site, i work in beachwood and live out in lake county..

are you running any air pumps in your tank? i suggest getting an air stone or two in there..

i've got a 110 gallon rubbermaid stock tank for my ft, and 2 barrels (in half) for growbeds, starting the indoor system this week, i have 3 55 gallon glass tanks to use, but still not sure what i'm going to do with it..

what part of cleveland are you in?
Author:  mweidner [ Sep 29th, '10, 03:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: How do I lower my tank's PH
Awesome, not seen anyone that close before, I am in Willowick, might have to get together sometime to compare systems! I actually work up on Heisley Rd, probably under 10 minutes from your place :wave:

Yes I do have one air stone, I have a second one I can put in, I am guessing that isn't going to be anything though as the water gets a good bit of aeration while it is cycling and normally I think ammonia is a sign of not enough air and my ammonia readings are 0.
Author:  mweidner [ Oct 1st, '10, 09:29 ]
Post subject:  Re: How do I lower my tank's PH
Ok, I have my answer on what is wrong with the fish, looks like I made a rookie mistake.

I have a pretty bad case of both fin rot and ich going on, I would bet I got both from the pet shop where I got the fish since I just got the fish.

I just upped the salt, I am not exactly sure where the salt level is right now (because the system has been salted before, but I would guess between 3-5 ppt). Tomorrow morning I am going to setup my old fish tank as a quarantine tank so that I can measure the salt level and get it up to 6ppt and move the fish over to that for a couple weeks, I will probably add in some medicine for it from the pet store since this system won't be hooked up to my GB's.

I also think its time to buy a refractometer so I can keep track of my salt levels better, I might have headed this one off at the pass if I would have known my levels to begin with.

Is there anything I should do with my current system to get the ich flushed out of it?

Thanks
Author:  earthbound [ Oct 1st, '10, 10:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: How do I lower my tank's PH
mweidner wrote:

Is there anything I should do with my current system to get the ich flushed out of it?




Heat... If you can raise your water temperature to at least 30°C/86°F for 12-14 days you should stop it's life system.
Author:  mweidner [ Oct 3rd, '10, 06:24 ]
Post subject:  Re: How do I lower my tank's PH
Ok, a few more questions for you guys. I bought a tank heater and I am in the process of setting up a quarantine tank (Better late than never right?).

1) In my main system I will have the heater in it with the water at least 86 degrees, I will have all the fish out of it and in my new quarantine tank. Will there be a problem with the Ick living in the gravel beds for longer than two weeks? I will still be cycling the water through the beds, but I doubt I can get the beds up to 86 degrees.

2) Is there any type of treatment I should do to rainwater I am collecting? I just setup a barrel to collect rainwater coming from my garage roof, I was planning on bringing it in and leaving it in a plastic tote for a day with a bubbler in it to make sure it is at the same temp as the fish are currently in, should I do anything else?

3) I am hooking my quarantine tank into a small GB that is separate from my main system, how do I keep the bacteria in the GB active when I don't have any fish in quarantine? Or will it pick back up quick enough when I need to add fish in, I figured when there were no fish I would just add some maxicrop in to keep the veggies going.

Thank you for the info so far, as always the knowledge here is great, try asking anything more than the prices at the fish store and you at best get a blank stare, at worst get totally wrong advice.
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