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Red wigglers... toxic?
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Author:  mrgrackletx [ Feb 14th, '08, 10:34 ]
Post subject:  Red wigglers... toxic?
I just read some articles claiming that red wigglers are toxic to snakes and fish. Red wigglers are the worms used in vermicomposting and many times they're sold as bait in shops.

I could have sworn I've read here that members have some vermicomposting going and feed the worms to their fish. I've got a bin going as well and have been slowly starting to feed them to my fish. My goldfish go crazy for them (not dead yet), my bluegill are starting to warm up to them (also still alive), but my chickens don't want anything to do with them (wtf?).

Anyone know anything about this?
Author:  TCLynx [ Feb 14th, '08, 10:44 ]
Post subject: 
There are some types of composting worms that can exude a stinky substance as a form of self defense, perhaps it isn't as effective in water hence why the fish like em but not the chickens? There are different types of composting worms and more than one variety might be called red wigglers. I've never heard of them actually being toxic and I've even seen recipes for cooking worm for human consumption.
Author:  timmy [ Feb 14th, '08, 11:03 ]
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i've fed them to my goldfish/koi many times and everytime it's been like pouring blood in with parrahan's
Author:  Jaymie [ Feb 14th, '08, 11:56 ]
Post subject: 
I thought it was Tiger Worms that exuded a nasty taste (?) when distressed (read, being fed to fish)
Author:  bio-farmer [ Feb 14th, '08, 12:26 ]
Post subject: 
thats correct Jaymie,

i think that some may refer to tigers as red wrigglers and hence the confusion. they may not even be known as tiger worms in the US.

having said this red worms will become toxic if they are not eaten and die in the water.
Author:  mrgrackletx [ Feb 14th, '08, 13:34 ]
Post subject: 
red wigglers and tiger worms are the same worm, Eisenia fetida. I've never heard anyone here in the US call them tigers but I know it just from reading about them. red wigglers are also different then red worms. Eisenia fetida are the most common composting worms.
Author:  Sleepe [ Feb 14th, '08, 14:42 ]
Post subject: 
Sometimes Lumbricus rubellus are also known as red wrigglers.
I assume from the name Eisina fetida, they do smell unpleasantly.
Author:  GotFish? [ Feb 14th, '08, 21:04 ]
Post subject: 
I thought red wigglers and tiger worms were different worms. That said, many folks sell tiger worms as red wigglers. For composters there is no difference as they both do the trick. From my understanding tigers put off the defensive icky stuff that some fish will not touch. Red wigglers on the other hand do not.
If I'm wrong then it surely will be the first time.
Author:  bio-farmer [ Feb 14th, '08, 21:23 ]
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amazing how much confusion the different names in different places can cause. everyone has to call them something else. if red wrigglers and red worms are different no wonder there's confusion.

all i know is that the worms with yellow stripes on them give off a foul smelling mucus that may well be toxic to fish. if you handle these worms you will struggle to wash the smell off your hands.
Author:  mrgrackletx [ Feb 15th, '08, 00:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: Red wigglers... toxic?
So this will clear it all up.. right? Ummm... wrong?

Red Wigglers
(Eisenia fetida)
The red wiggler is the most common type of composting worm. It
can process large amounts of organic matter and, under ideal
conditions, can consume feed proportional to its body weight
each day. It also reproduces rapidly, and is very tolerant against
variation in growing conditions. Other names for red wigglers
include Tiger worms, Garlic worms, Manure worms, and
Brandling worms.

Redworms
(Lumbricus rubellus)
The redworm is a very good composting worm. In bright light, it
is a very wriggly and is not at all suitable for fish bait. Redworms
are very effective in aerating and mixing the soil, and consume a
large amount of organic material, although less than red
wigglers. These worms are commonly found in decomposing
animal manures and compost piles. Other names include
bloodworms and red wriggler (but not the same as the worm
described above).

Red Tiger
(Eisenia andrei)
The Red Tiger worm makes an excellent composting worm. It is
a close relative of the Red Wiggler (E. fetida) and is commonly
used as a bait worm because they exude coelomic fluid, which
attracts fish. These worms are very active wigglers in sunlight.
Other common name for this is Tiger worm

Blue Worms
(Perionyx excavatus)
Blue worms have become more popular in recent years as a
composting worm. These worms do very well in warm climates,
but their degradative potential drops in the cold. Although these
worms eat fairly large amounts of organic materials and are fairly
prolific breeders, they are also very sensitive to changes in their
growing environment. In such case, these worms will migrate to
other suitable area or may move out side the bin. Other common
names include Indian Blue and Malaysian Blue worms.

African Nightcrawlers
(Eudrilus eugeniae)
The African Nightcrawler can be a good composting worm, but is
very sensitive to changes in its environment. The entire
contents of some worm bins have been known to move out in
less than a day if the prevailing conditions are not suitable for
them. These worms also perform much better in warmer
climates and are not recommended for areas where the
temperature falls below 10° C. The other common name for
this worm is the giant nightcrawler.
Author:  TCLynx [ Feb 15th, '08, 01:02 ]
Post subject: 
The big problem is that common names like red worms, red wigglers, African Nightcrawlers, and tiger worms are common names and often get mis-used.
Lumbricus rubellus and Eisenia fetida
are what came in the worm package I bought to start up my worm bin. I've not noticed any particularly bad smell on my hands after working in the worm bin, then again, I'm not trying to handle the worms that much.
Around here I thought the Eisenia fetida were called red worms and the Lumbricus rubellus were the red wigglers because of their habit of being extra wiggly.
I've also found incredibly wiggly creatures under mulch that builds up on concrete patios that are so wiggly that the image of a hot skillet comes to mind and I've been told that they were the African Nightcrawlers.

I don't know, to be certain one might need a magnifying glass and an identifacation book and start counting segments between the front end and the cilium of a breeder to be certain of the type of worm.
Author:  CharlieLittle [ Mar 30th, '08, 04:19 ]
Post subject: 
There is also Eisenia Hortensis becoming popular amongst worm farmers. Also known as ENC European Night Crawler. They are an excellent composting worm and fish bait as they get quite a bit larger than cousin Fetida and don't leave the beds like the blue worms unless conditions become toxic. I ordered 20 pounds of these from a farmer in Missouri about five years ago to start at the wastewater facility. They are everywhere now! Excellent worm...
Author:  TCLynx [ Mar 30th, '08, 06:28 ]
Post subject: 
I fed some of my composting worms to the catfish today. I expect some were Lumbricus rubellus and others were Eisenia fetida. The fish did eat them! It was funny watching because they often took them into their mouth and then spit them back out or the worm wiggled back out and they would try to eat them again or another fish would go after them. They were definitely not repelled by them!
Author:  badfish03 [ Apr 1st, '08, 00:39 ]
Post subject: 
Chickens can be picky if they haven't been given worms before. Once they figure out what they are you usually dont have that problem anymore.
Author:  mrgrackletx [ Apr 2nd, '08, 05:36 ]
Post subject: 
Well my fish have been eating red wigglers (e. fetida) and roly polies for a about a month and a half now. They don't seem toxic to my fish and the fish are really starting to like them.
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