Backyard Aquaponics :: View topic - Can birds and rabbits contribute nutrients in AP system?

Fish are cold blood, rabits are not and so they may kill you. (And I mean will kill you on a long enough time)

E.Coli can go from soil to leaf, and I meand Inside the leaf so washing it won't remove it...

E.Coli kill a lot of people every years, fish do not have it, that is why there is still an aquaponics community...

Take care

In Asia they have been practicing polyculture of various speices of fish, poultry and mammals (pigs mostly) and they seem to manage things without killing all their customers.

Which isn't to say there are not risk but like with many things in life you get your best results not avoiding risk but by managing it.

Yes it will work but do your research first.

Beter be safe than sorry.

"I'm not saying I won't take your advice, but in the past when I kept rabbit I've used his poop to fertilize my garden, and my veggies are one of the plants I fertilize. Or could it be because I used soil for the plants instead of AP? note I said rabbit without plural s, because I'm just a rabbit lover, not a breeeder"

You MAY use rabbit "nutrient" after composting or heating during enough time (composting produce a lot of heat), like it happend in soil

I guess fish should produce enough waste product for the plants to consume anyways

I was getting nauseous imagining my birds leaving droppings in the plants I eat anyways

BUT WAIT, If people use AP outdoors, wouldn't the water be attracting wild birds anyway? if they drank, bathe, or accidentally poop onto the water, what then?
enlighten me please. thanks

Exactly.

What about people who have greenhouses but have rats and mice in their greenhouses eating their veggies, pooing and weeing on their GBs?

There are a host of pathogens out there that can make you seriously ill or even kill but the same is true of every agricultural system. The risks are relatively small but they are there in all systems.

Also E. Coli would be the least of your concerns in a polyculture system. The reason E. coli kills people every year is because it is everywhere and anywhere it infects a vulnerable person it can make them sick and in extreme cases kill them. You are likely to get more E. coli contamination from washing your hands in a public toilet than from a well designed, well maintained and well run system incorporating a rabbit or two.

also I read that cooking the veggies will kill the dangerous pathogens, especially the ones living INSIDE the plant tissues. thank goodness I don't like raw salad...

Purdue scientists added E. coli to soil through manure application and water treated with manure and showed that the bacteria can survive and are active in the rhizosphere, or the area around the plant roots, of lettuce and radishes

E. coli is actually quite active in the rhizosphere. They're eating something there - probably plant exudates," said Ron Turco, a professor of agronomy and co-author of the study published in the November issue of the Journal of Food Protection.

Author:	RayMondo [ Oct 4th, '14, 21:15 ]
Post subject:	Can birds and rabbits contribute nutrients in AP system?
We all know fish are the primary fertilizer of our veggies in AP system. But it just so happens that I also love birds! ...and rabbit too my birds are Java Finch - a type of cute little songbird that has no interest in eating or shredding plants so they're likely safe. My dream is to have a little piece of heaven where birds, fish, and edible plants can live together and support one another, its basically an aviary (a huge bird cage that you can walk into) with a pond and an aquaponic system... My idea is to make sure their droppings go down into the water, dissolve, get sucked in the pump and eventually reaches the roots of vegetables. That, or the fish may eat the droppings... People have been doing that here in my country - except the birds are chicken and the fish are scavenger catfish... either way they circulate nutrients just like AP. Do you think bird droppings will be a welcome boon to a system? Oh yea, I also love rabbits... obviously I won't let them reach the veggies, but I do know their poop are high in nutrients that plants love. Could do the same thing with them as the bird droppings? thank you

Author:	Osmosis Project [ Oct 5th, '14, 03:38 ]
Post subject:	Re: Can birds and rabbits contribute nutrients in AP system?
Fish are cold blood, rabits are not and so they may kill you. (And I mean will kill you on a long enough time) E.Coli can go from soil to leaf, and I meand Inside the leaf so washing it won't remove it... E.Coli kill a lot of people every years, fish do not have it, that is why there is still an aquaponics community... Take care

Author:	Stuart Chignell [ Oct 5th, '14, 05:02 ]
Post subject:	Re: Can birds and rabbits contribute nutrients in AP system?
In Asia they have been practicing polyculture of various speices of fish, poultry and mammals (pigs mostly) and they seem to manage things without killing all their customers. Which isn't to say there are not risk but like with many things in life you get your best results not avoiding risk but by managing it. Yes it will work but do your research first.

Author:	RayMondo [ Oct 5th, '14, 10:28 ]
Post subject:	Re: Can birds and rabbits contribute nutrients in AP system?
Osmosis Project wrote: Fish are cold blood, rabits are not and so they may kill you. (And I mean will kill you on a long enough time) E.Coli can go from soil to leaf, and I meand Inside the leaf so washing it won't remove it... E.Coli kill a lot of people every years, fish do not have it, that is why there is still an aquaponics community... Take care I'm not saying I won't take your advice, but in the past when I kept rabbit I've used his poop to fertilize my garden, and my veggies are one of the plants I fertilize. Or could it be because I used soil for the plants instead of AP? note I said rabbit without plural s, because I'm just a rabbit lover, not a breeeder I do believe diseases like that occur mostly in heavily stocked breeding farm where diseases spread and evolve fast if that's too much worries then its okay, I'll just use fish only for my aquaponics but I do still want to research. thanks

Author:	RayMondo [ Oct 5th, '14, 10:32 ]
Post subject:	Re: Can birds and rabbits contribute nutrients in AP system?
Stuart Chignell wrote: In Asia they have been practicing polyculture of various speices of fish, poultry and mammals (pigs mostly) and they seem to manage things without killing all their customers. Which isn't to say there are not risk but like with many things in life you get your best results not avoiding risk but by managing it. Yes it will work but do your research first. that is correct sir, Asia have been mixing up species like that... I know, never seem to have any e.coli breakout where I live, I don't know why I'm not a breeder you know, I just love animals, their numbers are limited and their health are monitored with care and love ok so perhaps just to avoid the risk I should stick with cold blooded aquatic animals for my ap? I AM doing my research, but they never discuss anything about using bird or rabbit poop so I got to ask

Backyard Aquaponics http://byap.backyardmagazines.com/forum/

Can birds and rabbits contribute nutrients in AP system? http://byap.backyardmagazines.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=23140	Page 1 of 2

Author:	Osmosis Project [ Oct 5th, '14, 19:14 ]
Post subject:	Re: Can birds and rabbits contribute nutrients in AP system?
In some country they can drink their water, and I you try the same, then you will need a doctor (at best) In india they "can" swim and even drink water from the Ganges, with dead corpse and all chemical / medical industry byproducts and probably a lot of other thing but they started baby... from here to me it's natural selection... then when you look, it seems safe... but how many died before ? you don't see them... they are dead I wouldn't swimm into Ganges, no more than I'll drink it's water, or any country not using advanced purification technique, but millions of people are doing it... probably because they have no other options... Water can kill, lack of water will kill, here is their "choice" So maybe You can, but if you can doesn't mean other can, or that it will stay the same forever... Beter be safe than sorry.

Author:	Stuart Chignell [ Oct 5th, '14, 19:23 ]
Post subject:	Re: Can birds and rabbits contribute nutrients in AP system?
Osmosis Project wrote: Beter be safe than sorry. I've heard the same thing said about raising plants in the same water that fish are grown in.

Author:	Osmosis Project [ Oct 5th, '14, 19:41 ]
Post subject:	Re: Can birds and rabbits contribute nutrients in AP system?
Yes there is definitely stupid people without medical or biological knowledge, there will always be... who care ? E coli kill people every years that's a fact E coli live in hot blooded animals that is another fact There is now good paper on the fact that there is less E coli in aquaponic than in soil.

Author:	Osmosis Project [ Oct 5th, '14, 20:58 ]
Post subject:	Re: Can birds and rabbits contribute nutrients in AP system?
Quote: "I'm not saying I won't take your advice, but in the past when I kept rabbit I've used his poop to fertilize my garden, and my veggies are one of the plants I fertilize. Or could it be because I used soil for the plants instead of AP? note I said rabbit without plural s, because I'm just a rabbit lover, not a breeeder" Soil is soil, things are slow Aquaponics is fast look here http://www.purdue.edu/newsroom/research ... Ecoli.html Turco said the E. coli didn't survive on the plants' surfaces more than 40 days after seeds were planted. Harvesting produce at least 40 days after planting should reduce the possibility of contamination, but he warned that E. coli could still come from other sources. You MAY use rabbit "nutriment" after composting or heating during enough time (composting produce a lot of heat), like it happend in soil

Author:	RayMondo [ Oct 5th, '14, 23:54 ]
Post subject:	Re: Can birds and rabbits contribute nutrients in AP system?
Osmosis Project wrote: You MAY use rabbit "nutrient" after composting or heating during enough time (composting produce a lot of heat), like it happend in soil OH I see! well then I can still use rabbit poop for worm bin or directly to the garden soil. But NOT in aquaponics! alright... I guess fish should produce enough waste product for the plants to consume anyways~ I was getting nauseous imagining my birds leaving droppings in the plants I eat anyways BUT WAIT, If people use AP outdoors, wouldn't the water be attracting wild birds anyway? if they drank, bathe, or accidentally poop onto the water, what then? enlighten me please. thanks

Author:	Osmosis Project [ Oct 6th, '14, 04:11 ]
Post subject:	Re: Can birds and rabbits contribute nutrients in AP system?
For outdoor AP, to my knowledge and what I understand you may have a problem. Better keeping birds out as much as possible. Have no time do dig back for paper at the moment but sure will when I can.

Author:	Stuart Chignell [ Oct 6th, '14, 04:37 ]
Post subject:	Re: Can birds and rabbits contribute nutrients in AP system?
RayMondo wrote: I guess fish should produce enough waste product for the plants to consume anyways It depends on how many plants you want to grow versus how many fish. Many people want more fish and almost all the rest get enough nutrients from their fish so almost nobody does polyculture of multiple animal species on this forum. Quote: I was getting nauseous imagining my birds leaving droppings in the plants I eat anyways BUT WAIT, If people use AP outdoors, wouldn't the water be attracting wild birds anyway? if they drank, bathe, or accidentally poop onto the water, what then? enlighten me please. thanks Exactly. What about people who have greenhouses but have rats and mice in their greenhouses eating their veggies, pooing and weeing on their GBs? There are a host of pathogens out there that can make you seriously ill or even kill but the same is true of every agricultural system. The risks are relatively small but they are there in all systems. Also E. Coli would be the least of your concerns in a polyculture system. The reason E. coli kills people every year is because it is everywhere and anywhere it infects a vulnerable person it can make them sick and in extreme cases kill them. You are likely to get more E. coli contamination from washing your hands in a public toilet than from a well designed, well maintained and well run system incorporating a rabbit or two.

Author:	RayMondo [ Oct 6th, '14, 18:26 ]
Post subject:	Re: Can birds and rabbits contribute nutrients in AP system?
Stuart Chignell wrote: Exactly. What about people who have greenhouses but have rats and mice in their greenhouses eating their veggies, pooing and weeing on their GBs? There are a host of pathogens out there that can make you seriously ill or even kill but the same is true of every agricultural system. The risks are relatively small but they are there in all systems. Also E. Coli would be the least of your concerns in a polyculture system. The reason E. coli kills people every year is because it is everywhere and anywhere it infects a vulnerable person it can make them sick and in extreme cases kill them. You are likely to get more E. coli contamination from washing your hands in a public toilet than from a well designed, well maintained and well run system incorporating a rabbit or two. oooh! that's a satisfying explanation! agreed, germs and bacterias are everywhere, even in our guts. so we need to maintain our health with other factors too such as exercise, clean water, etc, right? wild animals (and I guess those people who do polycultures in my country) are used to living like that so they don't get sick, city folks like me are more vulnerable. sometimes I wish I had their superior immunity system LOL also I read that cooking the veggies will kill the dangerous pathogens, especially the ones living INSIDE the plant tissues. thank goodness I don't like raw salad...

Author:	Stuart Chignell [ Oct 7th, '14, 04:00 ]
Post subject:	Re: Can birds and rabbits contribute nutrients in AP system?
RayMondo wrote: also I read that cooking the veggies will kill the dangerous pathogens, especially the ones living INSIDE the plant tissues. thank goodness I don't like raw salad... That is true is most (almost all) cases but not every case. When disucssing this sort of thing you can't really deal in absolutes. Salmonella is one of the more common (still very rare) serious infections since there are the occasional outbreaks on soil grown and hydroponically grown lettuce. However, it is widely (not exclusively) believed that this is from post harvest contamination. I would not feel comfortable adding diary or worse piggery runoff to a DWC system growing lettuce without doing extensive research to understand the risks and risk management measures. I would feel comfortable right now to add it to my GBs to support my tomatoes and other fruiting plants.

Page 1 of 2	All times are UTC + 8 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group https://www.phpbb.com/

Author:	BuiDoi [ Oct 7th, '14, 05:39 ]
Post subject:	Re: Can birds and rabbits contribute nutrients in AP system?
.. Yuck... I have been using Goat Poo.. Feed it to the worms and their WormJuice goes into the AP.. BUT... hang on... how fair is that summary .. only read a bit of that "STUDY" and now thrown it out Quote: Purdue scientists added E. coli to soil through manure application and water treated with manure and showed that the bacteria can survive and are active in the rhizosphere, or the area around the plant roots, of lettuce and radishes WHO would be so STUPID as to apply Ecoli water over a bloody Lettuce .. If they had used Ecoli in soil, and grown without contamination of the food, and THEN found leaf contamination, then I would have been satisfied with the finding.. IMHO.... they stuffed the whole report for normal applications.. Now the difference is where you see Asian Growers watering their produce with what amounts to effluent.. IMHO... I think under AP conditions, that study is crap.. Quote: E. coli is actually quite active in the rhizosphere. They're eating something there - probably plant exudates," said Ron Turco, a professor of agronomy and co-author of the study published in the November issue of the Journal of Food Protection. HE THINKS... and there is no other biomatter in that soil. ! It sometimes troubles me when study institutes come out with "findings" from projects likely funded with grants... Thus needing a serious finding... .. . .. .