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PostPosted: Jul 3rd, '06, 17:10 
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Given limited sources of food in places.

Given that Tilapia is a fish that can be kept intensively... that can eat almost anything, including goat poop! (Goats are kept often in West Africa and Ethiopia).

Is there a way we could do some sums to work out how many of these fish could be kept in a typical backyard, in wheelie bins or tanks of a certain size.

How could the water be filtered an aerated? ( no electricity in some parts!)

How could this be done at minimal cost?

How could we come up with a "family sized" design on the VERY VERY cheap so that they can grow fish and veggies so that poor people can get fresh veggies and protien as a return for collecting manure.

(For example cleaning local dirt and sieving to get growbed media...)

Would it be worth coming up with some ideas and figures / designs / instructions for an easy to look after "domestic" system that would feed a small family, throughout the year, that supplies enough protein animal and vegetable ... at lowest possible cost?

If we come up with something real easy and clear that REALLY works ... maybe we could get an Agency like Oxfam or CAA to trial it?


Opening calulation .. two adults and three kids = 5 per family ...

One fish per week = 50 x 5

250 fully grown fish ...

If they take 6 months to grow .. = 125 fish you need to make room for ...

10 fish per 250 L tank ... means 13 tanks you have to look after ..

if you have to "bring them on" .. probably need a few small fingerling and fry tanks too!

How would you filter and aerate .. with no electricity ?


Worth thinking about .. sustainability is not easy!


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PostPosted: Jul 3rd, '06, 17:45 
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There are a number of people based in the US that are trying to do this exact thing your talking about Johnnie, though I think they are focusing more on community based project rather than family...

Realistically, if you want ot have the most sustainable systems possible without power etc then your looking at systems like the chinese have been practicing for centuries in carp pond.. Two to three different species of carp that feed on different foods, ie a bottom feeder, and then a top and/or mid feeder, with at least one of these being a filter feeder to feed on algae..

Ducks frequent the pond, and manure is added to the pond to increase fertility. Beds of vegetables are grown beside the pond and water is scooped out onto the vegetables where it seeps down through the soil, with a fair percentage of it returning into the pond..

Floating raft systems are also used, with reeds or bamboo being tied in bunches to provide the floatation, with plants planted into the top of the raft possibly with a small amount of soil if needed...

In third world countries they don't have luxuries of even wheelie bins, and aquaponic systems that require man made obects are almost out of the question for things to remain sustainable, or for it to be within the reach of most families and communities..

Though, all this said, I'm working with someone at the moment on designing and trying to put together a system that can be easily freighted and set up in remote 3rd world areas..

But for sustainability aspects, and real solutions to their food problems, permaculture designs and principles need to be taught and adopted in these areas, including methods of intensive pond culture as I mentioned above...


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PostPosted: Jul 3rd, '06, 18:03 
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Good reponse my friend ...

I reckon Village scale rather than family scale systems is the way to go ...

(I worked on an Aid rpoject in Thialand when I was younger ... and it put food in mouths ... it was amazing .. kids who were embarrassed about being hungry were turning up at school ... cos they helped grow the veggies in the school kids patch! There was enough for the kid who wouldn;t attend school, to get some pennies together and help bring home much needed food to help feed the younger baby ...

I guess I am saying .. maybe a little of what we try here can be used in countries where a little "edge" can make a difference.

How do you set up sustainable sytems that are optimum scaled so that the whole village benefits?

Sums are good ...


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PostPosted: Jul 4th, '06, 02:27 
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I think you'd want to be cropping at several levels and incorporate a biodigestor in the system for maximum benefit.

Polluted 'enriched' water bodies could be used with hardier species.

ie: Water in, very enriched but missing various plant nutrients is circulated with some hardy fish that handle extremities. This water is utilised for stock crops, azolla, duckweed, watercress, etc. Heavy mineral feeding plants and bivalves are in the next stage. After the water has been filtered it passes into the Human side of the system where touchier fish species and vegetables are grown.

All fish waste, plant waste etc is utilised by a bio-digestor and shallow pond system to provide - power, fish food, and fertiliser.

I'm dead keen on input here so if i can help just holler I'll be around.


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PostPosted: Jul 4th, '06, 09:28 
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Mmmmmmm, green water culture....... I've seen some fantastic work being done in this area.... Yet as a western society, the popular view is that 'enriched' water, (sewerage, farm waste etc) is a problem that requires lots of money, machinery and chemicals thrown at it to make it go away... Or preferably just tip it into the closest ocean/lake/river, then it's someone elses problem down stream later on...


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PostPosted: Jul 4th, '06, 09:35 
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I'm right into that stuff but got to get Aqua right first so I can move onto it with some focus.

I reckon I could run a garden directly off our zoos stream without adding anything and feed the animals organic veg for free minus maintenance. Huge lake feeds stream that then visits all the Aquatic animal cages. Massive shrimp populations downstream, water self pumped via reduction valve in stream culvert - we're talking real easy. And the return water goes back in cleaner than you got it. Why pay for water - get credits for cleaning it!


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PostPosted: Jul 4th, '06, 18:47 
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reckon Village scale rather than family scale systems is the way to go ...

I agree with that - the `poor which I worked with in Rural africa would not be able to do these things alone, but they do great things together - their traditional approach to things was always a community approach, so a community approach to this sort of thing would be best


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