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HELP ME!!!!
http://byap.backyardmagazines.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10030		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Ultralord [ Jul 1st, '11, 10:18 ]
Post subject:  HELP ME!!!!
my ph is 8.2 and i can't seam to get it down. i will attach some system pics. I have been adding muratic acid for a week and my ph is the same or higher. it is a fishless system right now and i had started it a month ago. due to money(or lack of) i just got the water testing kit about 2 weeks ago. my tap water is 7.8-7.9 ph.

Let me give a breif history. i start 2 months ago with 2 half barrels w/ pea gravel and a 1500l pond for the fish tank. there were 2 koi and about 6 goldfish in the pond. i started with constant ebb and flo. my pea gravel beds were soon coated with algea from the pond. so i bought an ibc for my fish tank. i also added 4 beds with drainage gravel and kept one of the pea gravel beds. this process took a couple of weeks due to honey do's. when i finally got my water testing kit i was shocked, my pond water was over 8.8 and my new fishless tank was 8.2. i have been reading these forums for 2 weeks to try and find out what i should do. i started putting in the acid about a week ago. and someone here (sorry i can't remember who) suggested useing low ph water as top off. so i have been doing that for 4 days, my top off water is 6.2 ph, plus i have been adding more acid (maybe 2 cap fulls) to the fishless tank each night. i have also added a timer so i run 15/45 now. but i run it for an hour straight each time i add the acid.

I really need to get my fish out of the pond, but i can't move them till i stabilze the new system.

Other things to know i have been testing everyday for 2 weeks amon is always .25 rites are 0 rates are 0 i have added liquid chalated iron twice since start and seaweed extract alittle everyday.

Attachments:
File comment: First ssytem you can see the gutter in between that carries the water back to the pond
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Author:  Ultralord [ Jul 1st, '11, 10:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: HELP ME!!!!
this is the new system. with my poor sad plants. i have already lost 2 strawberries, 3 cucumbers and 1 tomato.

Attachments:
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File comment: poor sad plants
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File comment: new system
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Author:  Ultralord [ Jul 1st, '11, 10:33 ]
Post subject:  Re: HELP ME!!!!
Sorry about posting this under fish. i did not realize. This is the first time i have ever posted to a forum.
Author:  Ultralord [ Jul 1st, '11, 10:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: HELP ME!!!!
here are a couple other pics of sad plants.

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Author:  vlt [ Jul 1st, '11, 10:40 ]
Post subject:  Re: HELP ME!!!!
How hot is it getting in your neck of the woods this time of year?

PH will come down naturally.
Author:  Ultralord [ Jul 1st, '11, 10:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: HELP ME!!!!
it is around 38 with the heat index water temp is pretty stedy around 30
Author:  chillidude [ Jul 1st, '11, 11:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: HELP ME!!!!
8.2 is not that bad - stop adding the acid.

Do you get full sun on those plants ? That gravel will get pretty hot in full sun at 38°C, and could be the cause of your problems.
Author:  keith [ Jul 1st, '11, 21:38 ]
Post subject:  Re: HELP ME!!!!
is your gravel limestone? that would be a problem!
you can check the media by placing some in a small container with vinegar.. if it bubbles, you might want to think about changing media..
what kind of flow do you have through the gb;'s? i found that 3 floods an hour in the half drums worked pretty well
Author:  Ultralord [ Jul 1st, '11, 21:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: HELP ME!!!!
The sun is on the grow beds from about 9a-11a then shines through a couple of pine trees untill about 3:30p or so until about 30 minutes before sunset. My water temp has stayed around 30 or less. this morning it was about 24.

Everything i have read says that with a ph this high i am starving my plants. That the roots are coated and are blocking the nutrients. All my peppers look like they are wilting. I am usally never a doubting Thomas, but when plants start dieing i get nervous.

chillidude i have read your system (almost every post) and you have definatly had a pile of challenges. I will stop the acid.

Should i add more shade? I have some of this shade cloth that was over a dog run.

Attachments:
tanshadecloth.jpg
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Author:  TCLynx [ Jul 1st, '11, 22:05 ]
Post subject:  Re: HELP ME!!!!
Hay, sorry for your troubles there. I probably have bad news for you though. Here in FL the cheap gravel is gonna be mostly limestone. So, do the vinegar test on your two different types of gravel but that is the first thing I will suspect for your situation. Unfortunately if your media is causing your high pH, no amount of acid is going to make the system work until you dissolved all the limestone away.

Do you like watercress? It seems to like an alkali system but it also likes cooler weather better.

Now you also need to run a few tests on your tap water again because if you measured your pH on the tap water right after drawing it from the tap, it will have given you a false low reading. Our water here in FL is often very hard coming from a limestone aquifer. If I test my water right from the faucet though I'll get a reading near 7 but if I leave the water bubble in a bucket overnight the pH reading will be over 8. Trapped carbon dioxide in the water in the pipes or underground acts as a week acid but after that escapes the true pH will show.

So, if your media passes the vinegar test and you test your source water again and see an extremely high pH then I would suggest fishless cycling and the pH will come down over time.

If your media doesn't pass the vinegar test, well, acid isn't going to bring the pH down. You can get the system cycled up to support fish but most plants are not going to thrive in it.

It is possible to get by with a system pH of 7.6 I know, I've been doing it with my large system where I made the mistake of using shells as about 40% of my media. Watercress absolutely loves the system in winter and I'm still able to grow most things but I have to regularly supplement with chelated Iron.

If the pH is over 8, you are going to want to save up to get new media. Here in FL the cheapest appropriate gravel is the 1/2" brown river rock. I often also use the red lava rock around the drains for something larger.
Author:  Ultralord [ Jul 1st, '11, 22:55 ]
Post subject:  Re: HELP ME!!!!
:upset: Well dang nabit! I have 2 types of gravel a larger 3/4" -1" size (no reaction) and a smaller 1/4" - 1/2" size (bubbled like crazy) they are unfortunatly mixed some. :cry:
Author:  TCLynx [ Jul 2nd, '11, 01:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: HELP ME!!!!
Well at least your larger gravel is non reactive!
You might be able to set up a screen of hardware cloth of an appropriate size to let the small stuff fall through and keep the big stuff to put back in the beds.

Sucks, lots of extra work and You will probably need to get more of an appropriate type of gravel to fill things up.
Author:  silkcom [ Jul 2nd, '11, 02:29 ]
Post subject:  Re: HELP ME!!!!
honestly the bigger gravel is way better for the system anyway :). It's less likely to build up anaerobic zones. Pea Gravel is usually not good for a system that you want to mature completely.
Author:  Ultralord [ Jul 3rd, '11, 11:36 ]
Post subject:  Re: HELP ME!!!!
well it is going to take some time to get it right. i have changed the ebb & flo to constant flood for now. i also need to add a larger st, mine is 190L. i seam to run it dry in just a couple days. i think i have a leak some where. Anyway i am very dishearten about my rock. :cry: The wife took it better than i did. :support:

funny thing about the rock, both types were in the same brand bag off the same pallet, some bags where just larger rock, and other bags were smaller rock. :dontknow:
Author:  Ultralord [ Jul 3rd, '11, 12:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: HELP ME!!!!
:scratch: I was thinking since i will have to replace all of my grow media, what if i used lava rock for the bottom half and the river rock for the top half? (i can try and sort out the gravel later for future gb's )

Also any thoughts on how large of a st I should use? i have one more ibc i can cut up for it.

I have started a new discussion in members http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=10034 Please post replies there. I did not mean to get this so carried away under fish.
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