Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

That's what I meant. . . . . mind you I didn't have my set up going in Easter
I guess if worse comes to worst, I can always get some goldfish till the trout season starts again. What about getting Barra, how far in advance do you need to order them, if anyone knows
A.J

Mr. D - your mate might be as straight and honest as the day is long - I'm happy to accept that.

My goal with this conversation was to directly support the guys, here in WA, that have put in the commitment to run a hatchery, govt-subsidised or private, enabling us to get edible fish fingerlings over here at a reasonable price, despite the Byzantine and contradictory layers of bureaucracy. If it becomes not worth their while, our aquaponics gets harder and more expensive to stock with fish.

For my personal consumption, and this is purely my opinion, I won't buy fish from a dealer who sells edible species and non-edibles out of the same place. Unless they have completely separate facilities for the two classes, it is simply cheaper (i.e. making that buck), easier, and virtually unavoidable for them to use anti-algae treatments, de-chlorinators and agers, anti-fungal treatments, and other chemicals (e.g. malachite green) routinely used for aquarium stock, to keep their tanks clean and their stock alive. Yet virtually all these chemicals are not recommended, or banned (in most developed countries), for fish that will be eaten.

If they were happy to take me out the back and show me the separate facilities, I may then consider it.

Once again, Greenfingers is probably doing the right thing, hell, most of them will be !

I'd ring Challenger TAFE in Freo, soon, to find out. Sometimes they sell barra direct sometimes they sell them to others such as Golden Ponds.

Hey Yabbies, I hate to tell you but you are wrong. Check this out http://www.fish.wa.gov.au/docs/pub/Aqua ... x.php?0307
It clearly states that if you intend to sell fish for a profit you need a licence. This has always been the case . I dont know who you spoke to at Fisheries, maybe it was the girl at reception but if you speak to the manager of the Aquaculture Branch Steve Nel he will confirm this for you. I know cause I just double checked with him.
As for bagging the hatcheries it must be remembered that all these guys who are on-selling fish have purchased them from the hatcheries in the first place and usually at about 1/4 of the price that they are asking for them!!

Yep, we've been through all this before to find out if we could sell fish.. And no, we don't sell fish because because you need a license. And don't just ask one of the idiots at fisheries on the front desk, you need to ask someone in the know.

I think you'll find that Freo TAFE has no Barra left this year. Someone recently cleaned them out.

DOH!
Looks like it's gonna be goldfish unless Golden Ponds has some more Silvers tomorrow

Hey Gav,

There in lies part of the problem, the info you posted the link for goes against the info I have received verbally from fisheries... twice now!... I was told that as long as you weren't breeding fish, taking fish from the wild, or selling restricted species, and were only reselling fish purchased from licensed breeders... you didn't need a licence.

In the very recent past I have asked this same question of a couple of pet store/aquarium shop owners when I was buying fish for my home AP and also pet fish for my kids, and have been told by both that as far as they know, no license is required.

As far as me bagging hatcheries, I'm not to sure what you're referring to. As far as pricing is concerned, I don't know how you got onto pricing based on my post, I never mentioned pricing, but I doubt those that are on-selling fish are buying them from the hatcheries at a 1/4 of the price, as you suggest. Maybe if they are flying them in from over East, I dunno, I've never even done the pricing exercise.

I do know when I went through the process of pricing fingerlings through yourself and other licensed suppliers here in WA, for the purposes of on-selling them to my customers, there was very little difference to the prices you guys were quoting me for larger quantities of fish wholesale, to what you were selling small quantities to individual retail buyers. That's the main reason I don't stock fingerlings, I couldn't justify the cost of setting up and maintaining holding tanks.

It's not something I hold against you or the other breeders, everyone has the right to make a living, and you guys have had to invest a good deal of money and time to set up. In fact every time I have customers asking for trout, it's your number I give them... but saying the stores that are on-selling fingerlings are making 300% is a bit rich. The stores in Perth that are offering fingerlings for sale are providing a service for those that don’t want to deal direct with the breeders, only want very small numbers, or can’t wait a fortnight for delivery. It’s understandable that they sell the fish for a higher price than the hatcheries.

If they’ve flown them in from over East, they may well be making a good profit this year because of the shortage of both SP’s and Trout, but the only place I’ve heard that’s doing that is Golden ponds, and I’d still say 300% would be a stretch, even this year.

I have noticed there is a tendency on here to bag the fingerling on-sellers around the Perth area for their prices, but there is a lot more involved than most people think. When I went through the exercise I was looking at a few thousand dollars and quite a bit of area in my shop, to set up a system of holding tanks properly, and I’m only talking about two systems with a capacity of 200-300 fingerlings each… to make $0.50c - $2.00 per fish, depending on species and size. Then there’s all the usual fixed overheads business incurs, plus the extra power, the extra time involved maintaining the tanks etc. Those guys don’t make as much on each fish as you all think.

As mentioned earlier in this thread, AP people in WA have been spoiled. If the on-sellers weren’t around, you’d all have to drive to Gidgie, Burekup, even Pemberton, how much would that cost in fuel alone?.. or you’d have to wait for the fortnightly deliveries… if and when those guys have stock.

Cheers.

While I can't say for sure about WA, I would be very surprised if a stocking permit of some type was not required for AP in WA, as the various states seem to be regulated in this matter federally. I can definitively say that it is required when doing home AP in VIC and NSW, as I have spoken to the DPI folks about it at length, with various scenarios. At the present time, even if you keep a single goldfish (or a native species for that matter) in a small tub in your yard, technically, you require a permit. The onus is on the person doing it, not the person selling. For instance, if you buy 100 trout/silver perch/etc from a hatchery or reseller, the seller does not have to ensure that a permit is approved or applied for. This being said, DPI Victoria is in the process of putting together a further exemption for home keepers of fish, but as it is very preliminary at this point, they aren't committing to what is included or excluded, or even when it may occur. In VIC, the number of fish that you can purchase for this purpose is limited as well.

Obviously if any selling is done, then an aquaculture permit is required instead of this.

http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets ... ocking.pdf
http://new.dpi.vic.gov.au/fisheries/rec ... -farm-dams

I know that stocking permits roughly the same exist in all provinces in Canada as well. I can't comment on elsewhere.

Trout and Perch and Barra are restricted species.

Yabbies, I have found if you want to get the correct info from Fisheries you have to speak with those at the top. The standard public servant at the lower levels seem to always be changing jobs and never know the correct regulations. I dont know what the deal is with Pet Shop stores but I do know that the Pond places all seem to have aquaculture licences. Many of them had them initially to sell Koi but have had them altered so they can now sell Trout, Silvers and Barra too.
As far as discounts for large orders go you really need to be buying the fish in the thousands not the hundreds. Last season when I had plenty of Silvers I was selling the early batches and large orders for $0.75 each. The same size fish were being sold in some places in Perth for $4 ea !! Thats over a 300% mark up. But like you say the on-sellers do provide a service and for those who only want small numbers of fish and its probably more convenient. Perth is a bit different than the other states in that apart from Carey up at Giggiganup all the other breeders are located a few hundred kms away.

I dont want to get involved in this discussion about fish breeding or licensing, as I am just a beginner and know very little.

But I do want to know about where to get some fish! I was hoping to get some SP's within the next couple of weeks and some Barra when the weather warms up. Reading between the lines does it mean I will be unable to get either from a reputable dealer (that hasn't contaminated them with poison).

Fair point


Ring Challenger TAFE in Freo - They don't have any ready yet, but they're getting there and handing out their pricelist at the moment.

Im sure Golden Ponds will be able to help you out with the Silvers and the Barra when your ready.

Last I heard golden ponds has silvers available now... We'll be heading down there in a couple of months to get some Barra.. If you are getting Barra for the summer, make sure they are advanced, many people buy small ones and don;t get them to size before the end of the season.