Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Do you also have barra nick. Were they also sold as feeder fish

no the barra were $8 each from mappins nursery, originally had 5 but 1 died very soon after bringing home and putting in new tub. I only wish I could get some barra at feeder prices. Barra and murray cod would be my ideal fish for my aquaponics system. Had the idea that I could grow barra out in summer in a big pond with murray cod in a smaller tub and then in winter grow the barra in the same smaller tub but heated and the murray cod grown to eating size in the large pond. aaaah dreams

Never heard of mappins nursery!

it is out on the road that leads from brookfield to the gap, I think it is gap creek road. They sell majority water plants but also have an aquarium section that I got the barra from for $8 each, so am looking for a supplier for the next lot.

Should have done poll on how many would last the week. A lot of them are looking pretty unwell - probably about half. Reckon they will be dead within the next 24 hours. Doesn't worry me that much given how cheap they were - unless they have introduced some sort of disease.

The ones that are okay look pretty healthy and active - so I guess I'll just see how it goes. May end up having the get a second batch to make sure I have enough.

VB, Have you done a partial water change? And / or checked PH?

Its a lot of extra load for the bacteria, and it may take them a few weeks to adjust colony side to new ammonia load.
If ammonia and nitrite are fine well then your PH may have shifted quite low quicker than you would normall expect due to higher fish density.

Do a 50% water change if in doubt

Steve

Did about 30% water change yeterday. Haven't checked ph or anything else. Did away with those sorts of test kits years ago. I don't think these fish will be putting much load at all on the filter. They are tiny (no bigger than a small guppy. More dead and sick fish today. I'm just going to leave it and see if any live. If not, its no huge loss ($14) and i'll do some analysis of the water before trying again. The way I figure it is its going to be much worse conditions in the pond than in my heated fish tank.

I reckon the fish may have been diseased when I got them. You know how sick fish often flick their sides onto the botton of the tank. This is what some of them started doing soon after I got them and I saw this happenning in the tank at the fish shop.

Steve - used one of my pool test strips to test the tank. Here are the results. Naturally there is no free chlorine and no cyanuric acid (stabiliser). Ph is very low (for a pool anyway) being below 6.2.

For what it is worth, total alkalinity is very low also.

What should I be aiming for? What should I do, if anything?

Ahhhhhh, yes, the "flashing" of the fish. Trade mark symptom of Ich (white spot). i HATE this parasite!!!

Do any of the fish have white spots on them? perch will be the first as they waould have been the carriers. Your cloawn loaches will almost certainly be infected as they dont have scales to speak of.

6.2 is LOW for PH. I know some people don't like the test kits, and to be honest, i haven't used them on my main aquarium for about a year. Once everything is ballanced and you get the feel for things then you stop using them.

HOWEVER; Any time something doesn't look right (dead fish is one of these ) or after i have made major changes like a new filter or new stock. i'll check ammonia weekly for a month, PH too.

There could be just so many things that could be out of wack .

IMO the 20 small perch you put in will be adding a noticable load on the filter.

What you need to realise is that the bacteria colony is only ever large enough to support the fish in the tank.

IE: enough to process the ammonia from you couple of clown loaches and the bristle nose. The bacteria need to start reproducing again to be able to process the added waste. To say that it wouldn't matter would be almost the same as saying that 20 of your perch in a new tank wouldn't need any biological filtration at all.

This is where its tricky. There can be a few scenarios in play.

1) Your ammonia is infact OK and the ph has drifted low due to increased acid production by the bacteria and the low alkalinity you have in your tank.Dose your ph back up again (slowly) with bi-carb

2) More likely, your ammonia is NOT ok, as at PH 6.2 the bacteria go on strike. If you dose the PH back up you will most probably kill the rest of your fish as ammonia is many time more toxic at high ph verses low ph. Do a LARGE (50 to 80%) water change then adjust ph to 7.0
look up the graph below, you get what i mean. My perch tank was at ph 6.0 once, i was about to raise the ph back up and then i tested ammonia. it was 11! tolerable at that ph, but at ph 7.5.......DEATH

http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum ... .php?t=133

3) you may have introduced white spot into your tank from the aquarium (highly likely). I WILL NOT put a new fish into my tank until it has been in quarantine for a few weeks. I know what half of you are thinking, becasue i used to think the same way. "it'll be ok" Yeh, until you discover that one shitty neon tetra has infected $200 worth of tropical fish.

If you do notice white spots appearing on you fish then do one of three things. one: nothing, your fish will die eventually. two: dose them with the garden variaty "cures" which will most probably kill them. Three: turn the temp up as high as the fish will tolerate with out dying (circa 29C-31C), and add a high dose of salt (cant remember how much, can look it up if you want) Number three is the only treatment that has worked for me, and i've tried all three besides even if the chemical "cure" works your fish will be unfit for eating.

See what i mean about not knowing what to do unless you have tested the water for different things?

Please feel free to ask any questions. I've gone through most of these thing personally at some stage.

Steve

Thanks Steve - will do another big water change as soon as I can - probably not until Tuesday because I have run out of chlorine nuetraliser.

After I have done that, how much bicarb do you think I should add each dose. The tank is 200 litres and PH is 6.2 or below at present.

Re: Ich - yes I have had that in the tank many years ago, but suprisingly my clownies have never sufferred from it. I remember reading how suceptable they are to it at one stage and thinking how lucky I was to have never had it on them. There are no noticable signs of it on any of the fish at this stage.

% or 6 of the perch loom really healthy - eating well and swimming well. I will stop feeding until I am able to look at reducing PH and fixing bacteria.

Thanks again.

VB Sorry about your fish,......I can really understand how you feel.... I think I hold the "title" on this forum for "Fish Killer el Supremo" Very frustrating for you.....
My Jades are cruising at the moment.
Can’t say that I know what I am doing, but have now got down to a regular routine that is working.

7:AM, Check Temp (usually around 21 deg) then vacuum the bottom of the tank which takes out about 20 litres of water, then I add 20 litres of fresh water from the house tank, and feed them some Tropical flakes.
5:30 PM …stare at the fish for about 10 minutes, just so great to see them growing and imagining them lying on a frying pan…… Then feed them some native pellets and put the lid in for the night.

I am starting to feel "ready" to move onto the next step......
Really have to get the first of my 2500 ltr tanks finished as my little mongrels will need the space very soon, and the Grow Beds are calling……
Murray

You will need some more fish when you move to the next step Murray. Do you think you will nurse them through in the small tank like the first lot, or chuck them straight into the big one. Those 100mm monsters might give th small fellers a hard time if you put them in together straight away.

Re: my deaths - I'm not too botherred by it. More worried about the fish that I have had for 10+ years that I may be putting in jeapardy through my less than well thought out actions

VB, by what I have read about Jade and Silver, I don't think the bigger fish will bother the smaller ones......I have 6 or 8 small guppies of various sizes in the tank with my existing Jades, some are really small....like , only about 10mm long, and some are about 40mm long.
I put them in there thinking the Jades would eat them for dinner over a few days, but they have been in there now for about three weeks and the Jade show no interest in them at all......
I hope that is an indication of how it will go, but when I get the bigger tank up and running I will add a few new ones, like 6 or so, just to see what happens and keep the rest in the 200 ltr tank as a nursery tank. (I will buy another batch of 25)
Anyone out there able to comment on whether Jades and Silvers will eat the smaller ones of their own species or not ????

VB,

if you cant check the ammonia then hold off on raising the ph until you have done the water change.

most tap water is around the 7.0 mark, so that will take care of the ph as well as removing any excess ammonia that may be there.

the bi carb should also raise your akilinity (carbonate hardness).

You have the same size tank as me, i'm just trying to remember how much i used to use before i realised that it wasn't the best for my aquatic plants Um..........i'd mix two teaspoons in a glass of aquarium water and then pour it evenly over the tank. Wait 5 min or so for it to mix in well and measure the PH again. Try not to move it more than 0.5 at the most. Dose again tomorrow afternoon.

Keep us posted.

Keep an eye out for the white spot though, somethime it can infect fish inside the gills where u cant really see it.

Steve

Bought test kit, did 50% water change and tested water. It is about 7.5 ph. I also tested again with my pool strips (out of interest) and they say that it is still very low (looks like they are wrong). It is therefore doubtful that the water was low in the first place.

The fish that are left don't look too bad - only about 5 of them now.

Re: Ich - still no signs, though I did see a fish flashing today.

I have increased the temperature (to about 28/29 degrees C) and put some sea salt in.

I can't remember how much salt I'm meant to put in. It has been years since I have done it in a full on way as a disease treatment. I do remember it is a lot that you can put in. Does anybody know the dose.

Also, I have always just used shop bought non-iodised stuff. Have had no problems in past. I think acquarium salt is just rip off - anyone know any different?