Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Hi, Mark from Bundaberg, Australia here.. I'm new to this and have been learning a lot from youtube/this forum/anywhere else google points me to, and my wife and I have managed to hack together the foundation of a small cheap(-ish) system, which we hope will eventually be able sustain at least small amount of fish and plant life.

I'm a computer programmer, and quite a klutz when it comes to building stuff without bits and bytes.. So I'm bound to be doing a few things wrong, and figured it's best to ask for some advice from those who've been there and done that.

We live in a rental, so had to limit the size a bit, and the ground is uneven which makes for a lot of annoyance.. We found a little boxing, black plastic and crusher dust solved this problem for the tanks at least.

Anyway, this is the basic layout of our system, I guess it's a sort of CRAFT type system (idea mostly borrow from Affnan Aquaponics), with two constant height ~140L "tanks" surrounding a 150L round central sump.

The growbeds aren't painted/sunblocked yet. I am a bit worried the little growbeds aren't high enough for adequate filtration- but i figured they can upgrade later. The clam-shell kiddy pools were an afterthought, they cost the same as the little tubs ($12.50), and a lot deeper. I guess we will find out how long they last.


Note the dutch bucket tomatoes to the left.. That's what got me into this in the first place

Here is a little of my dodgy plumbing... the sump hasn't been fully filled yet..


I'm not 100% sure on the underneath feed line concept.. I did it this way for two reasons, one because I wanted to ensure the beds were drained when the power goes out, and two, I wanted the option to play with a timed fill/drain if I chose to in the future. But I've read somewhere around here that might not be good for delivering solids.. is this true? (If it is, I figure a riser going to a T in place of the media shield will do the trick)

After numerous attempts and many cuss-words learning how to tune them, the bell syphons are working well. I was wondering if it is a bad idea to silicon the media guard to the bottom of the grow bed? I was worried about it lifting on me..

My pump is 2400L/m with a big rectangular pvc squiggily "mesh" filter.. in hindsight probably a little too small capcity wise because at the time I didn't think about using the excess capacity for aeration. I also have a small 750L/m 12volt backup which will plumb in later for power outages.

I was thinking of putting a small easily removable filter box over the 3 outlet pipes of each fish tank to catch some excess sediment that flows into the sump.

Well, that's all I got for now.. I know I should have came here before I started, and probably saved myself some design headaches... But any pointers would be greatly appreciated.

Welcome to the forum Mark.




Could you clarify this bit? Do your inlet pipes simply deliver water to the base of the growbed?



I personally wouldn't silcone them down in case you wish to adjust or switch siphon components around in future, or twist them to cut off invading roots etc. What I do instead is add a few larger rocks (eg 100mm+ diameter) around the base of the media guard which helps lock it down in place.

Or, for even better stability, I affix one of these flanges on the base of the media guard, THEN put a few bigger rocks down first on this. It doesn't budge at all then (you must excuse my rugged photoshop job):



http://www.bunnings.com.au/holman-100mm ... e_p4750174




I'm assuming you meant to say 2400 litres per hour.. Yes, it's ideal to plumb your setup so you're gaining as much oxygenation as possible from the water as it gravity drains back. If you're concerned you need extra aeration, instead of upgrading the pump (more $$) you could always add a small airstone to supplement oxygen. They are cheap in terms of $ and power draw. eg my favorite is a small dual outlet, 300 litre per hour airpump. They cost me $30 and draw 3 watts. For the extra aeration you gain, that's very economical.

An air pump in the fish tank may also buy you some time if your primary pump goes kaput (if it doesn't trip the circuit breaker)


hmm... you probably don't want to hear this but if you're needing to do this, you're probably not utilising the sump tank correctly. The growbed should be capturing these solids.
Only clean water (filtered by GB) should be returning to the sump tank. I watched a bit of Affnan's vid on his CRAFT setup and personally am not convinced of its benefits but anyways (ie what's the benefit of the sump tank? )

Thanks for the reply jono81,

Yes, for the moment inlet pipes deliver into the underside of the smaller grow beds. (The clam-shells just get fed from the top for now. I figured I should wait and see which works better.)

EDIT: There is a netpot as a shield protecting the inlet on the base.. i can already see this getting clogged with roots.. Maybe I should just raise it to the top, and drill a small hole at the base of the overflow standpipe like Affnan does for emergency drainage?

I like the flange idea.. Going to try that out..

And oops, definitely 2400L/h.. I'm used to working with airflow devices and think a lot in L/minute..

I have a pair of dual outlet aquarium pumps for each tank to supplement this.. not sure if they are big enough, but I figure somethings got to be better than nothing..

Currently, the water from the grow beds syphons into each of the side fish tanks, and the overflow sucks from the bottom of the fish tanks and goes into the sump tank..

The sump tank in this case is just a buffer container for the dirty fish water. From what you are saying, I want the solids delivered along with the fish pee to go to my grow beds. I might have to rethink that one a little and use a pump that can handle small solids.

I figured if it didn't work well, it could be easily converted once I manage to track down a 1000L IBC, placing it to one side and a using a pump with a float switch in the sump. I'd then gravity feed the grow beds from the top.
Or is my theory on how this works fried? :-}

I haven't heard of inlet piping done like this before. I would advise against it as it's pretty much bound to get blocked, either with roots like you say or crap coming from the fish tank. it's just a matter of time.

If I were you I would cut the inlet pipework before it goes into the bottom of the growbed, and reconfigure the inlet plumbing so it simply runs over the top of the growbed lip like most do. You could just silicone the old inlet in the base of the growbed to save pulling it all out.

I drill two small holes just below the GB lip (way above the water mark) and cable tie the pipework in place. Here's a photo of one I setup for a customer to give you an idea of what I mean:



Running the inlet plumbing like this allows you to see better what's going on, and notice straightaway if any problems. Also, you can turn all other taps off (for max pressure) and 'purge' a particular inlet out this way if it's starting to get blocked (it shouldn't)



Well, seeing you've got it all setup like this now, I'd probably just leave it. If you notice fish poop collating in one part of the sump, see if you can position the pump in that area to help suck up the crap and get it into the GB's, where you want it so it can break down and become mineralised (plant food). The more work the pump can do moving the solids, the less sump cleaning for you.

If you can create a whirlpool effect in the sump with the way you place the drain pipes, the solids should fall out into the middle of the tank.

For your next IBC system, why not just place the GB's above the fish tank. Pump from fish tank to GB, and the GB's drain back into the fish tank by gravity. Simple, proven and effective.

Or if you must get fancy and incorporate a sump, do a search on this forum for SLO configurations (Solids Lift Overflow's) which help move the fish poop into the growbeds

+ 1 on the suggestions. Make certain the two holes for holding the inlets with a cable tie are above the water line.

On the Affnan Siphons, if you drill the hole in the lower portion of the standpipe your Sump needs to be large enough to handle all the water that drains to it from the growbeds. Your beds won't totally drain and that's OK. We usually use .4 X The growbed volume filled will media as an estimate of how much water is in a Grow Bed when it's full.

Cheers

Thanks for all the suggestions... I've been tinkering away and have managed to tackle all that stuff.

The best thing I did was move the system away from the wall which gave me level ground and better access to everything on both sides. So much easier

I shot a quick little video showing what I've got so far. Apologies in advance for any cringeworthy noobness and shoddy craftsmanship assaulting your eyes..




There is still a little more to do, (fishtank mesh covers, extra SLO pipe on each tank, safely tying up the excessively long pump power cords, a little bit of muting, and probably umpteen other things I've forgotten), but have decided to start cycling up with a little Ammonium Sulphate and Seasol. (pure Ammonia is hard to get here)

Been tinkering away with our little project, getting everything ready for fish.

I improved the SLO's in the tanks, and installed a dodgy temporary mesh (zip tied garlic bag :-} ) over each of the overflows inlet side them to stop fish getting sucked up, I'll find/design a better end piece later, they are fairly easy to remove and work on. I know if I leave it like this they'll eventually get clogged.

I also made a steel mesh lid for each of the tanks, and improved on the growbed drainpipes venturi design a little to give a little better aeration on the return flow.

I'm in the middle of constructing a shadecloth roof/cover for hideously hot summer days, as my poor little plants have been taking a beating in the Bundaberg sun. I've discovered they do better if I pull the bell syphon out for an hour or two during the hottest parts and let it run constant flood.. I was wondering how bad this practice is for the bacteria?

One thing I've noticed since starting the cycling process, is the system is chewing through a bit more water than I expected, I have needed to top up with a 20L bucket every two or three days. There are no leaks that I can detect... perhaps a tiny bit of splashing mist from the aquarium bubblers and growbed returns.. Is this a fairly normal expected loss for a 400L system in summer?

I plan on putting a raised barrel/tote going to a float valve mounted in the sump to keep a comfortable level set, that way I can top up the barrel whenever it starts getting low and I don't have to worry about pump burnout. I figure this will give the chlorine/chloramine a little extra time to break down too.

Ten days ago, I put in in one teaspoon (4g) of Ammonium Sulphate, and since then a capfuls of seasol here and there to help the plants, and a bit of blue planet water ager to kill the chlorine/chloramines, and it seems to be cycling up nice and quickly.

I was wondering when is the best time to add fish? I take it when both the ammonia and nitrite drops right down to zero? A day after so the PH buffering gets a chance to settle? I'm excited to have gotten this far, but I don't wanna screw up.

And seeing this is a CRAFT typed system with a "dirty" sump, will a few goldfish revolt on me if placed in the sump tank?

Here's an update on my little system, it's been running for a while now and I'm very happy with it so far.
Both the Mrs and I already want a heaps bigger system

I now have 4 Silver Perch in one (140L) tank, 8 Comets in the other (140L), and about 40+ little feeder fish in the (90-150L) sump, all swimming happily.

Had to modify the SLO's a bit, because they sucked up fish (the onion bags clogged up in minutes.. bad idea). That's been fixed with a capped cross pipes along the bottom with lots of holes in them.

The feeders might need to go from the sump to another tank, as the mesh filter over the pump that protects the fish stops a lot of poop getting pumped up. Most of the goodies get swirled to the centre of the sump (under the pump inlet) by the 6 SLO's, but I still have to give the sump water a good stir up every now and then, and pull the filter sleeve back. While doing this a couple of poor feeders got minced by the impeller and sent to the grow beds.

Plants are doing ok, not fantastic, but we've already got a few small lettuce, chard stalks and (yummy) bok choi out of it.


PH is running around 7.5, which is too high for my liking.. PH Down (Phosphoric acid) doesn't seem to lower it any, I've been adding it gradually though so as not to shock the fish.

There's a bit of yellowing with green leaf veins on some plants.. (The celery in the pic above has a little bit of it) I'm not sure if that's nutrient lockout or deficiency.. I've already added a little bit of iron chelate, magnesium sulphate and sulphate of potash, it also got a bit of powerfeed and seasol while cycling.

Ammonia and nitrites are both 0, but nitrates are also measuring 0. Not sure whether to add more fish, or just feed the ones I got more often??

Can anyone give me advice on what to feed little perch? They are a bit small to take on the larger feeder fish.. Currently I'm giving them little high protein sink pellets from the fish store, but they never seem to go nuts over it.

Usually with a new system it means there is an Iron deficiency. With a pH of 7.5 you will need the right kind of Chelated Iron. Probably the DTPA Iron chelate will work for you.

The pH will fall as the system matures.

Eeek. I think I shouldn't of tinkered.. I'm now getting signs pretty major leaf burn... I may have overdosed the supplements. I added one teaspoon each of Iron Chelate powder, Magnesium Sulphate and Potassium Sulphate.

I've just added 40 litres of dechlorinated water to flush the grow beds and top up the system (i added the supplements to the grow beds and didn't water them in very well initially), and managed to bring the PH down a bit more.

The fish so far are happily feeding ok..

I suspect I've made a serious booboo and may have to do a fairly heavy water change?

Or perhaps ride it out and see what happens?

Pics of the burns might tell us something. It's a good idea to dissolve the chemicals in water first then add them. I've never had to add Magnesium Sulphate (Epsom salts) or Potassium Sulphate. Seasol or Maxicrop will both have potassium. Magnesium is available over the normal pH ranges that you see in AP so unless there isn't enough going into the system in the first place I would expect enough to be there - http://ibcofaquaponics.com/information/tables-and-charts/

Since the fish seem to be Ok, I think if you leave it alone it will be alright unless the chemicals never completely dissolved.