Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Hey guys!

I guess i wanted some reassurance in my design.. is it gonna work?
Think it's pretty much a CHIFT-PIST/CHOP setup:

50g FT overflows into a ~30g ST, gets pumped into a reservoir for duckweed/fingerlings/etc., and floods the ~50g GB area, venturi drain in the GB's will drain water back into the FT which overflows into the ST, etc.

Soo I'm not sure if i have it right? I guess my concerns will be the splashiness of the water when it siphons out into the FT (this is an indoor setup)... and subsequently whether or not I have the right idea for an overflow type drain going into the sump tank?

and going further.. I wasn't sure if it would be beneficial to put in another ~25g worth of GB to increase the volume of fish i could hold. as it stands now.. it seems like I could really only keep around 6 fish? hmm i think i'm doing the conversion right..

thanks for any help!

sorry i didnt know about that picture image size restriction...

I would recommend having the fish tank next to the grow beds so you could have the fish tank overflow directly into the grow beds then the grow beds drain into the sump tank, that way your pump is working with much cleaner water. Where you put the yabbie/duckweed tank is up to you.

Some noise from water is going to be evident indoors and I've found that my biggest issue hasn't been with actual splashing but bubbles tossing fine dropplets of water up into the air that can stain/discolor whatever is right next to it.

I'm not sure what you are planning with a venturi drain from the grow beds back to the fish tank though? What you would actually want is either a standpipe if you are going to use timers for the flood and drain or a siphon if you will run the pump constantly. A venturi drain well it depends on what you mean by venturi drain. We use what we have been calling a SLO drain or solids lifting overflow to drain from a fish tank in a CHIFT PIST design, many of us used to call that a venturi drain

This tread has lots of useful diagrams
http://backyardaquaponics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5311&start=0

And if you are not already tied into using the barrels cut longwise like that, you might have an easier time getting siphons to work in a barrel cut around the middle. Barrels cut around the middle are also easier to support as they don't tend to buckle and bow out the way a barrel cut long wise will do if it does not have proper support.

Oh, and with only 30 gallons of sump tank, adding another 25 gallons of grow bed might be pushing things, either your pump risks running low on water or you risk overflowing the sump tank.

thanks lynx!

Unfortunately i've already cut one barrel lengthwise.. It seems more space efficient anyways; but now I guess I'll have to build some kind of side supports so it doesn't bow out.

What i meant by venturi drain was one of those guys that siphons everything out rather quickly once a certain level is reached (maybe it's a bell siphon? bell siphon from the GB to the ST)

Thanks for clearing that up for me.. I knew that an added benefit of CHIFTPIST was less gunk in the pump, I guess it wouldn't have made sense the way I had it arranged.

So I think I'll be rearranging things...
I think I'm also going to get rid of the 50gallon tank and replace it with a 25-35 gallon tote so I have a tighter 2:1-ish ratio

For some reason i can't get over the fact that I'll be wasting all those gallons on just a handful of fish (and that i'll be tempted to add another GB... more problems in my tiny livingroom)

I'll sketch up another model and post it when i have a better idea

Have a look at Ryan's support structure, still serving the purpose. viewtopic.php?f=18&t=4099 Page 12

Cheers IanK

thanks ian,
after reading through that and several other threads i think i've come up with a better design... --think--

the first system is one of the more popular, i think, designs:
-ST pumps to FT, gravity to GB, gravity to ST, etc.
this seems to generally be accomplished using elbows and tees and even bell valves to control the water flow into the GBs from the FT.
bell siphons remove the water from the GBs at a certain height.

the second system i -think- I like a little better:
same idea basically,
but instead of two different inlets for the GBs I simply fill up one; this GB is 'attached' with a larger PVC fitting to the other.
therefore they mantain the same water level, right?
this eliminates the need for some extra tube and putting another bell siphon together.
not only that but I think it also allows one to keep the GB somewhat lower to the ground as less gravity is needed to send water 'rushing' through the tubes.
and with the GB lower by maybe a foot, it opens up the possibility of a tank for growing duckweed (or whatever.. i don't even know at this point if I have enough biofiltration to support any yabbies/other animals)

sorry the screenshots aren't too telling, but let me know what you think.

so here is my fairly final design.
the only thing i might change is making the sump a little bigger (only at around 27 gallons right now)

the fixture on the top will be the light fixture, I think i'll be making two fixtures that house around 6-12 flourescent tubes at 40watts each.

light is going to require a little thought i think.

if anyone sees anything wrong with this final design let me know; i'm gonna start putting it together soon and posting pics of the progress.

just wanted to keep everyone updated on my progress, I know you're all squeemish with anticipation

I've come to the conclusion that all aquaponions must be expert plumbers.. took me several hours to figure out that all the stuff i bought wasn't going to work... male-female slip-ons for the PVC are apparently not meant to thread in all the way, this bulkhead guide clears a bunch up for me:
http://www.truetex.com/bulkhead.htm

i'll be getting the "secret ingredients" tomorrow, hopefully get the bell siphon started as well.

So I've reached a point of hesitation regarding my system design.

I'm unsure as to whether or not I should connect the two GB's to they equalize water levels, reach a designated height and subsequently drain from a single GB.
Or if I should just setup two bell siphons, as well as draining FT water into both GBs (I like(d) the idea of draining simply into one GB)

My hesitation is in regards to the "equilibrium connection", I wonder if it will get clogged by roots, poo, etc?

I've heard that gravel filled tubes are more prone to it, but what about empty ones?

long rectangular slits to keep pebbles from clogging it, accompanied by some drill holes should be good at keeping rocks out, but is this enough to keep roots from clogging, or fish poo?

here's a picture of how I plan to connect the tanks, so that water level stays contant across.

I'm tempted to switch over to "my" original design, sticking bell siphons in both GBs.
Having bells in both GBs seems to guarantee that I can simply twist the outer pipe to break up any root growth, thereby preventing clogs.

Any feedback appreciated!

Eddy,
Welcome aboard!

If you use a large diameter pipe (2") for the FT overflow you should not need more than a couple inches of head to drain to growbeds.


Try uniseals instead of bulkhead fittings or male/female fittings. Any of them will work, but uniseals are an elegant and cheap solution. I also tried drilling undersized holes, heating the edges to fluid, and creating my own threads with a pvc fitting. It often worked after some practice.



Your concerns about clogging are (very) reasonable. I tried a similar thing and had clogging and overflow issues, but my system was not indoors, so there was no wrath from DW. Some advantages of individually plumbing separately are
1) less likely to clog and overflow
2) more likely to flood/drain out of sync so that sump level stays higher and pump works less (lower head)
3) one less uniseal!

Disadvantages:
1) more plumbing
2) more bell siphons to malfunction

One solution might be to have large perforated drain line along the entire length of your growbeds and protecting the coupling from gravel/clogging. You could even have the ends farthest from the coupling bend up and come to flood level, surrounded by gravel dam. Essentially you will have a drain line/overflow. Complexity makes me nervous, though.

Thanks hydro,

just bought the parts for putting together the bulkheads, so i'll probably give it a try.
I've decided to add tiny-tank on top of the FT (fingerlings/duckweed/etc), so i'll try the uniseal there; good chance to compare first-hand as well.



that first point is what really drives my hesitation, and I think that even the slightest increase in an overflow is enough to sway me the other way.



I'm unfamiliar with bell siphons completely, other than from what i've read.
This scares me a bit because I had thought that once a bell siphon was "calibrated", that it would pretty much always work?
I assumed that clogging was a minor issue with BS's because you could simply "twist" the roots out.



This idea entered my mind,but I think I came to the same conclusions as you: first of all the complexity, also the fact that I would never be able to check if the drainholes were clogged, unless i removed everything completely. Putting a vertical pipe in seemed like a decent idea but Ireally don't want to use the surface area of the GB for anything other than plants (that I don't have to...).
Ther is simply no easy "twist to clean" method that the BS seems to offer.


I'll post pictures as I make progress on plumbing

I've never used them either, but have used autosiphons (of which bells are a subset). The two failure modes (other than clogging, which I have only seen in very small tubing) are always full and always empty. I believe these are not problems with good bells, properly sized, but others can comment better......

The only thing that is really bombproof is timed flood/drain, but I like autosiphons.... *sigh*
I do have an autosiphon that fills a container that acts as a weight to open a valve....but complexity.... and space... are issues.

I have run a system where there were several containers hooked together by pipes and they all flooded and drained together, it can be done.

However, you are probably better off giving each of the two half barrels their own inlet and their own siphon or standpipe if you switch to timer operation. The main reason is trying to line up holes to hook the two barrels together could be tricky and a slight miss allignment could cause some pressure on bulkhead fittings that could start to leak over time. Also when connecting beds together like that you need to use really large pipe and those fittings cost a lot more for what it is worth.

Another benefit of making the beds separate, is if there is a problem in one, you can shut it off and deal with it while still leaving the other bed online to keep filtering the water for the fish.

Thanks for the input
I do think I'm going to go with two inlets and bells
I'm now slightly confused on what sizes are appropriate, the bulk amount of post on siphons really makes the info a bit difficult to settle on: soo any input on my pipe sizing is appreciated!
I originally thought 1.5" (sorry I need to learn metric). PVC for everything was borderline necessary. I now feel tha maybe 1.5" for the slo will be fine; and that 1" tubing (25mm) for the drainpipe, 2" (40mm?) will be good for the siphon tube, and that 4" (80mm??) will be ok for the gravel filter around the siphon tube (i guess that will hep lower the chance of clogs.. A plus)
also slightly nebulous to me is whether or not I need a u-loop before the wAter reaches the reservoir?
My pump is rated at 370gph. If that has any bearing whatsoever.

Christ how did you all figure this plumbing business out!?
Just when I figure out how to make something I realize something has slipped my mind...
Hopefully the chemistry comes. More naturally