Jamest and his system in work

Jamest

Ok so to save time and to make it easier for me to do my research iv decided to make one thread and name it so named.

I will use this thread to track my research and my aquaponics system updates.
The system wont begin until early next summer but in the mean time im going to be asking a ton of questions in here and hopefully work on a table of contents or something for other people to better track questions, answers.

anyway thanks in advance for all the answers and advice to my questions.

i will try and edit this post every time i ask a question and post the page that it is on so people can look at this table of contents and skip to what they want to know. please quote all answers. Thanks.

TABLE OF CONTENTS:
1. What is the difference, pros & cons between a filled median grow bed and a floating grow bed?
If i used a floating grow bed could i screen the inlets/outlets, and put minnows, crayfish and shrimp under them to increase my food production meat wise?

Jamest

1. What is the difference, pros & cons between a filled median grow bed and a floating grow bed?

2. If i used a floating grow bed could i screen the inlets/outlets, and put minnows, crayfish and shrimp under them to increase my food production meat wise?

earthbound

Media filled beds are the simplest form of system for the home APer.

Jamest

would you happen to know the Pros/Cons of the two?

I found the answer from a post that i did some looking to find..

Quote:

http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10263&p=290593&hilit=pros+and+cons+of+growbeds#p290593
5th post on page 2.

Ebb and Flow (E+F) is typically done as a small residential AP system and DWC is used for commercial systems but can also be done on a smaller scale.

Commercial E+F system:
The main drawback to E+F being done commerically is that you need a very large sump/reservoir to supply water to the growbeds. The sump/reservoir is usually half to equal the size of the fish pond and this is seen as a waste of space and money.
Also commercial operations tend to need things more sanitary than the average homeowner's system. So this means regular cleaning. Having to clean the media in a 100' E+F growbed would not be something anyone would look forward to. It's also not really practical. Of course if you had a well designed E+F system then you 'theoretically' wouldn't have to clean the media just leave it to the worms and bacteria. I have a feeling someone will build a successful E+F commercial scale system very soon.

Plants:
Ebb and Flow uses grow media and so can support taller plants then DWC. Although there are people growing plants such as basil and even tomatoes in DWC. But typically DWC is good for leafy vegetables and herbs and E+F is good for both leafy and fruiting vegetables.

Positives:
DWC systems-can be cheaper to construct than E+F systems of the same size. The DWC growbeds act as an additonal volume of water. This stabilizes the system and allows for more fish than a similarly sized E+F system. DWC growbeds can house additonal livestock. Typically invertebrates that will not harm the roots of the plants (tiger prawns, crayfish).

E+F systems- have full drain cycles which expose the plant roots to oxygen periodically. Autosiphons do a very good job of raising dissolved oxygen levels. The grow media in the growbeds support beneficial bacteria and worms (if added) which act as filters for fish wastes. The grow media also supports plant's roots better than DWC systems which allow plants to stand up to wind.

Negatives:
DWC systems- number one drawback is root rot or pythium (browning/dying off of roots). Pythium thrives in wet oxygen deficient environments and since DWC plants are always submerged it is the perfect environment for pythium. To combat pythium in DWC you need to aerate vigorously. This requires a large air pump and distribution system. You could add a de-gassing tank instead of aerating each individual growbed. DWC also requires additional filtration besides the growbeds. This is usually a settling tank, mechanical filter and a biological filter. All these tanks take up more space. The settling tank requires regular maintenance to drain the collected effluent. The mechanical filter will also need regular cleaning to prevent it from getting clogged. Cleaning both of these filters wastes alot of water although you can discharge the waste water to in-ground plants (I dump mine to bananas and papayas since they are too big for my GB's). The media that is usually used in the mechanical filters can be very expensive (matala mats, japanese mats, brushes, etc.) The biological filter media can also be very expensive (bioballs, matala mat, biohome) although you could use cinder gravel to save money. And if you put some plants in the top of the biofilter then it would be a Constant Flow Media Filled Growbed (I use Kalo).

E+F systems with timers and standpipes- have to depend on the pump to go on and off constantly. The pump may fail over time and you may not notice it. The timer may get ants in it and it will not work properly (this actually just happened to one of my timers).
E+F systems with autosiphons- usually need constant adjusting and monitoring. Some people don't mind this as they look at their systems daily but for myself I find most autosiphon designs unreliable. On a BYAP survey thread the longest consistently running autosiphon was operating for only 6 months (but after what just happened to my timer this doesn't sound so bad).
E+F systems are typically more expensive than DWC sytems.

I think the ultimate Commercial AP system would incorporate:
A Fish tank (with a Solids Lifting Overflow or Bottom Drain)
that drains to...
Ebb+Flow autosiphoned growbeds (need autosiphon for a constant flow system)
that drain to...
DWC growbeds 50-100' long (2 beds connected at one end for a U-shaped flow)
that drain back to...
Sump/De-gassing tank
Then the water would be pumped from the sump to the Fish tank.
Its a dream now but its going to be built eventually.

So i answered my own question, thanks

RairdogAP

From what I've read;

Floating rafts are great for leafy greens, require extra air to oxygenate roots, but don't hold much bacteria for the nitrification process
Media beds can support all plants, are better support for fruiting veggies and give plenty of room for bacteria to grow.
Don't know about putting stock under rafts.

Jamest

is it safe to use a metal framed swimming pool as a fish tank? by that i mean chemicals in materials, and also would the fish harm the pool liner?

also it wont let me edit the orginal post so i cant update it with contents and question referals like i wanted to sorry for that.

Gwydion

http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=17409

In this thread you can see a pool in use and there was some mentioning about different pools and how the more expensive models might have some algae grow inhibitors in the liner which is not wanted.

Cheers

TCLynx

There are fish safe swimming pool liners that will probably cost you more. The cheap vinyl swimming pool liners may or may not contain fungus, mold, algae killing chemicals that could also be quite detrimental for fish and bacteria. I don't know an easy way to figure out which cheap pools will be safe and which would not.

I personally don't much like using flexible vinyl products where I can avoid it since to make PVC flexible you need plasticizers that by their very nature tend to leach out of the plastic over time, especially with exposure to UV light. Over time the flexible vinyl will become more brittle and eventually be quite prone to cracking and abrasions. Some of the plasticizers, though perhaps rated as "food or potable water grade" are things that I personally don't want in my food system. I would actually personally choose the non potable water rated epdm for a ornamental type pond before I would use the flexible PVC liner and over the long run, a HDPE aquaculture tank isn't that expensive if you can find a roto molding manufacturer locally. I would also recommend several smaller tanks over one huge swimming pool.

Jamest

update: closing on the house in 9 days, cant wait, still need to measure the door opening on the barn but im guessing its 10x10 has no door on it so im thinking about buying a 10Lx10Wx7H greenhouse to plug the hole and the extra 3' ill be putting in a screened vent to keep the bees and other insects out of the barn where ill have my fish tank.

Bought some small mealworms from a local petshop a few weeks ago, iv been feeding them breakfest oats from food lion lol, but they are starting to pupate, as soon as my first beetle is hatched im going to go buy a few dozen crickets and start that colony too. hopefully by early next summer ill have my set up going. lots to do and lots to plan.

On the 1st of sept, im going to start building my chicken coop so i can get some chickens and eggs comming in, my wife's alergic to chicken eggs so we wont be needing them, so i plan on buying an incubator to keep my chicken population up. nothing like fresh chicken for dinner.

Also early next summer once my system is started im going to grow duckweed and perhaps some other aquatic plants to use for chicken food and as an addative to my fish food plan. going to try a combination of mealworms, crickets, duckweed, and chicken eggs ground and baked with maybe some rolled oats or soybeans? maybe dont know yet. hoping this combination will be effecient enough so all i have to buy is 50lb bags of rolled oats for $15 every few weeks to feed the food for the other animals.

ideas and comments are more than welcome.

Jamest

also TCLynx im starting to agree with you, im thinking hard plastic tanks just because i dont want to have to drain my system for a leak every time the liner rips. i found a place that sells those ibc totes for like $80 each so im swinging more that way for my initial set up. maybe later ill add a swimming pool if i feel the need to go bigger with it.

But for right now im just wanting to get enough food off my little 1.8 acres im buying to not have to buy groceries other than breads, milke, butter, and the other things that would just take to much time to produce.

Also i dont know if this has ever been done, but inside the greenhouse im planning on building, i want the first few grow beds in the daisy chain system i have planned to be those float type so i can stagger them so that its more like a water fall from one to the other for soothing, my wife wants a relaxing tranquil area and was thinking i could do both with the greenhouse. a tranquil and growing place to relax and get food from

keredg

Sounds nice but sorry to say You won't be self sufficient for greens etc with a 10x10 greenhouse, its tiny, Totes/IBC are about 3x3each so 9xGB's would fill it with no space to walk arround. mine is about 20x20 and its too small. I also have a 14meter x 9meter hoophouse thats net covered for my pheasants/peacocks, now that might just do

The best chickens for eating(meat) are hybred crossed for more meat production

Good luck with the food production.

Jamest

ya I figured that the 10x10 greenhouse would be to small, but its the cost thats got me for now anyways, ill be adding a bigger one later but for a start i think that one will have to work.

TCLynx

ya gotta start somewhere.

Now since you wife is allergic to chicken eggs, have you checked to see if she can eat other types of bird eggs? Like duck or Muscovy? Muscovy ducks are easy to raise and they don't Quack and many people think they are a premium meat bird. Or if you do want eggs, indian runner ducks are good producers I hear.

Don't neglect the soil gardens and other permaculture options, aquaponics is only one part of a farm. A new farm is a huge time investment, you will have to pick and choose your primary goals and projects and chip away at them while you dream of all the other things you want to get done. I'm speaking from experience since we only moved to our new farm a bit over a year ago. It costs a lot to get up and running. Also, you will have the urge to rush and build things but remember that you need to learn the lay of the land, sun angle, wind directions, micro climates etc that your new place will have. I know I rushed some things when we moved in and I now kick myself for some of my decisions because I didn't do what the permaculture rule says, which is to watch and document the property for at least a year before you go DOING anything to it (planting etc.)

You don't want to go sticking a greenhouse somewhere that won't get the best winter sun.
You don't want to go placing your fish tank where it will be smack in the way of working/harvesting etc.

I would probably recommend against a cascade from grow bed to grow bed, it never really works out like a waterfall and would get in the way of productivity in the greenhouse. You can set up a nice water feature near the patio or where ever you find your wife likes to hang out and relax and make it into something more than just an ornamental water feature, you might use it to grow edible pond plants and duckweed and mosquito fish or something like that.

Jamest

so the wife called me yesterday, my mealworms that i helped along to darkling beetles just before i deployed have recently hatched a "brood" of mealworms, she says there's thousands of them and they are hungry lol.. so far other than the $30 set up iv only spent $4 on food for them (a can of oatmeal) so excited, i told her she's going to have to go and get a 50lb bag of rolled oats soon or she will be buying lots and lots of oatmeal lol even still that 50lb bag of rolled oats at our nearest tractor supply store is only $20 and that will last awhile depending on the amount of mealworms ill have when i get back.

on a side note, still trying to descide if i want my greenhouse next to or attatched to my bar.. if i attatch it that could seal my barn up so no more bee's could get into it and also keep my greenhouse warmer during the winter months. but if i put it next to my barn, there's a concrete pad already there so choices choices.

lots to do when i get back.. lots..

Jamest

does anyone know if it would be safe to use a plastic rubber made type tote as a grow bed? they sell 10gallon ones at my local dollar general for like $5, would it be safe to eat something grown in them?

Backyard Aquaponics A place to discuss aquaponics

Jamest and his system in work

Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics