Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

thanks!!

So - get one bottle started - 5-6 weeks, then jump-start the next ones with 20% and get it done in 4-5 days!

thjakits

TC,

do you remember (or have any data) how much hummonia you needed to maintain WHAT level of ammonia and how long it took to cycle the system?

Really only interesting if you have data that can be interpreted and/or interpolated....

Let's say you got x gal of water in the system and needed to add xx oz./liters/gallons of hummonia every xxx days to maintain xxxx ppm of ammonia, and the whole fun for zz days for complete cycling!

THAT would give us an idea on planning out our hummonia needs for our systems cycling!

As it takes some time to prepare proper hummonia.....


I guess just dumping fresh urine will work too, but obviously slower.....


cheers,

thjakits

200ml per 1,100 liters/300 US Gallons (total system water volume) generally seems to get you on the range at 1.5 to just under 2 ppm ammonia.

In the GH...circa 100 cubic feet of LECA media and around 4,000-4,500 US Gallons/16,000 liters (total system water volume) takes me between 4.5 to 8 liters of humonia to achieve the similar ammonia levels (1.5 - 2 ppm)

depending on how heavily the system is nitrifying (environmental conditions like temps, pH, KH etc)...it may take from one to 3 or so to oxidize to NO3...

While cycling your system it wont really be consuming that much that often until your well into the process (post NO2 spike phase when your ramping up your colony)...

Extrapolate away! but the biggest variable determining "EXACTLY" how much humonia you will have to add to achieve a given ppm of system wide NH4 ot TAN will be how hydrated you were at the time you tinkled...and other dietary considerations (morning urea is darker and can result in a larger struvite harvest than pale yellow urea collected later in the day after drinking much water...make sense?

The above numbers should get you in the ballpark though.

I should add that TC gave me my original base point numbers a good 4-5 years ago. the experience she related to me was using 500ml per 300 gallons to get her to 4ppm...so that's what I used more or less to get onto the range. From there just make observations, take notes, and adjust accordingly

..
It's an interesting topic, but I do wonder about the chemistry, and especially with female-humonia,
ithe estrogen levels....And amplify that if younger ones.. on the pill..

Then, one wonders what happens when you pop a Stilnox or similar, remembering that most bodily contaminants are peed out..
Eg.. Temazopan sleeping tablets are a narcotic based material.. so the thought is... with all such drugs, once they enter an AP sytem..HOW. are those chemicals removed or are they forever, there like salt, and only diminished by water change.. and then. .. chemistry and clay is an unknown, as I suspect that clay MAY have an affinity to absorbing. And holding nasties..

Something is wrong with my system.. some fish die within 4 days, whilst others live happily (Koi).. and this despiite a number of 99% water changes
..
.

Thanks Vlad,

certainly just a ballpark number and the rest is specific system needs, but ballpark is what I was after!

So - how much total hummonia will I need to cycle the 300 Us gal system?

Ballpark!!

thjakits

3 cans of beer per day for a few days should be sufficient

Just monitor your Ammonia level and stop when you get to 1ppm, that's all that is needed for a 6 week cycling time in winter here, and a lesser time when it is warm, such as where you are.

vlad, how many liters can you make in the 4-6 week? my job is quite active so i drink lots of fluid, i already stored about 4.5liters in 1 week excluding the times when i didnt have access to store it

Hi Gunagula, in 4-6 weeks at least 75 liters (and thats taking into account some random pit-stops where you have to flush it into the sewer system...where the big strategy for dealing with the significant amount of biological waste we humans produce is largely just one of "dilution" )

thjakits, To cycle a 300 gallon system (total water volume) assuming around 100 gallons of good media...a nice pH in the high 7's and decent temps...across a 6 to 8 week period for cycling (which is plenty)...it shouldn't take you but a couple gallons (tops) to cycle.
2 gallons of humonia should take less than a week to collect.

BuiDoi, one of the "standard-commonly agreed to" pre-requisites for using this method, is that the humonia comes from healthy humans who's body's are free from any pharmaceuticals. This and most other common concerns (some real, some entirely unfounded) have been discussed at length over the years in this thread and in others like it...So no, no pharmaceuticals, hormones, anti-biotics, cancer meds, human happy pills etc...Many of those types of items are already impacting (non-human) ecology and biology in negative ways. Due to our whole "dilution is the solution to pollution" approach these pharmaceuticals get flushed into our waterways and eco-systems and have been shown to alter behavior and habits of different species. (See articles linked by someone earlier in this thread...)

(On a side note...by processing the humonia even in the simple manner of precipitating struvite most pharmaceuticals are left in the liquid effluent and the MAP/struvite crystals are "clean"...of course you still have to do something with that med containing liquid effluent though.

Just saying, even with meds in the mix they can be separated out of your input source...but the general recommendation is if you are on any meds, then pee-ponics probably isn't for you, and that you should look elsewhere for a source of nitrogen.

Thanks Vlad,

got it!!


thjakits

vlad, whats the best way to dry the struvite if the weather is rainy? i dont want to do it in the house, maybe the garage if it doesnt smell that bad. also is drying necessary or can i just use it directly on the plants since the rain will dilute it anyway?

A somewhat ventilated garage is fine...but as you say the rain (and any other even slightly acidic waters) will disolve and dilute it anyways...

I used some in a fertigation application in the outside garden as well (400-500 tomatoes, 200-300 peppers, cabbage, peas cukes etc...), using a common venturi injector-drip irrigation scheme. Results and problems were typical for any high phosphate fertilizer...namely the formation of calcium phosphate precipitates in drip lines and emitters as a result of repeatedly combining high calcium carbonate well water with source of excess phosphorous.

Whether it does or doesn't smell that bad is probably a subjective matter. I thought making struvite smelled no better or worse than the hallways at an old folks home...or the elevator in my one band mates building...kinda bad... That is, until I visited a guy with a few thousand head of cattle...organic composting etc...he doesn't seem to mind or even notice the smell, all things being relative I suppose...

i just tried 1l, i can definately see some struvite forming but not much, how long did you stir it beforehand?
whats the dillution ratio for seedlings/ mature plants that you use? did you use the effluent in your fertigation as well?

have you tried adding some comfrey leaves or any organic material during the hydrolysis of urine ? ive read thats a good way to extract more minerals

so the stuvite dried, its not 100% pure though i had some dirt in the bucket while doing the chemistry.
this is from a little over 1l of urine + 1 teaspoon on epsom salt

can you overfertilize or "burn" in ground plants?

[quote="saopk"]so the stuvite dried, its not 100% pure though i had some dirt in the bucket while doing the chemistry.
this is from a little over 1l of urine + 1 teaspoon on epsom salt/quote]

So, is that all there is to it..... pee and Epsom... and then... how do you apply

PS.. environmentally the process is logically perfect.. Remove the nutrients prior to flushing ..
Curiosity... typically how much Epsom to pee..
Would the logical be to add Epsom to a bucket and start filling it and when fullish just tip the liquid and dry the solids

PPS.. as another curiosity.. wondering what the Epsom.salts combines with the free AMMONIA...

so if we keep Epsom.salts in an AP system, does this mean that the dangerous Ammonia, can quickly combine with the Epsom.Salts, and form a.safer nutrient.... Struvite (magnesium ammonium phosphate) alias MAP..
So expanding things.. We add SALT (NaCl) so that the chloride ions will help block the Nitrite ions for the fish, and we add Epsom Salts to combine with free Ammonia and reduce that fish danger.. have we not got a good environment for fish health..

So is my chemistry completely wacky..
..