Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

According to some studies, the fastest cycling will take place with an ammonia level at about 5.0. This would, of course, be damaging or deadly to fish....

If it were my system, I would add X humonia daily for a week and see how levels are doing, then increase that amt to aim for 5ppm. (Actually, I would probably use urea fertilizer as that is more consistent, even though it lacks the phosphorus of humonia.)

Eventually, the ammonia levels should plunge and the nitrites rocket. At this point, do not increase additions of ammonia, just keep them constant until ammonia and 'ites drop to under 0.25. At this point you should have a nice population of bacteria and can go ahead and add fish.

Make sure the ph is not changing faster than bacterial populations can react (say, more than .2 per month?).

Thanks for the feed back guys,
I've got to consider that I go away for 4 months next year and probly will not find anybody to look after the fish while i'm gone.
So with that inmind i think i'll just get some goldies for now and make sure i can keep them alive.

TCLYNX, what is the best way of lowering the ph?? I dont want any nutrient lock out.

Why do people salt a system when they first add fish to it or when there is sick fish ? and whats the formula for adding it?

Regards
matt.

Wise move on the goldfish they will survive in most condidions
Salting 1 kg in 1000 litre = 1ppt salting helps the slime coat is a benafit to the plants and lowers nitrate shock [i think ]

Hi guys,

a'm i reading this right? Todays readings
Ammonia .5
Nitrite 5.0
Nitrate 20
PH 7.8
FT temp 25


So it looks like the bacteria that changes the ammonia to nitrites it there. do i have to wait for the bacteria that converts the Nitrites to Nitrate to kick in before i add fish??
Not quite sure if Im reading the results right?
do i need to keep on adding humonia
do i still need to keep on adding seasoil?

regards
matt

At this stage Matt.... I wouldn't add anything more...

Just let the rest of the cycle complete naturally...

I agree, a little patients while the nitrite spike is going on. (this is usually the longest part)
Probably don't need any more seasol for now.
If you are hoping to add fish soon, don't pee in it anymore.

Salt between 1ppt and 3ppt is generally good when adding new fish to help reduce stress, heal sores, improve slime coat, mitigate nitrite toxicity, and even provide some trace minerals to the plants. Strawberries may be affected by salt levels of 3 ppt though.

So, stand by and keep testing to see when the nitrite starts coming down. There is a good chance that your pH will come down some as the nitrite is converted to nitrate depending on how buffered your system is.

I don't believe there are any really good ways to artificially bring pH down. If your pH is really high because of buffering, then adding acid will only dissolve the buffer and the pH will bounce until the buffer is completely dissolved (would really suck if your gravel were limestone and you were simply dissolving that.) pH will naturally come down as the bacteria use up the carbonate in their work on the nitrogen cycle. Patients. My system started with a pH of about 8.2 (that is what my well water was that time of the year.) As it started cycling it stayed around 7.9-8 for quite a while until it suddenly dropped to 7.6 where it has stayed for about a year because my media is about 40% shells. However since I got past the year mark, I've seen my pH drop a bit lower depending on rain, feed rates and iron supplements, I have seen a pH as low as 7.1. Patients, the worst thing the high pH really means is that you will probably need to supplement extra iron during your first year if your source water is not really heavy on iron. Just watch the plants, Iron def is easy to spot with the yellow leaves but green veins on the new growth.

Hmmm....if we were talking about cycling with fish I would agree. However, I've done some reading and apparently the bacteria that convert 'ites to 'ates don't have any issues until the levels reach 20mM (I figure that as 92ppm!). Now, I haven't tried this, but according to the published data the bacteria reproduce faster at any level below that, so cycling would theoretically be faster if you keep adding the same amt of ammonia you have been dosing with..

Note1 : this is all through reasoning, not experience! I am probably overlooking something vital!
Note 2: I have no data on the effect of 'ites on Nitrosomonas (the ones that convert amm to 'ites)

data source: http://www.biochemj.org/bj/085/0440/0850440.pdf

But he is still cycling... his ammonia is dropping... but his nitrite levels are still high...

Adding more ammonia will only result in more nitrite conversion... initially...

But additional ammonia... WILL... inhibit the growth of nitrobacter/nitrospira.... just prolonging the cycling...

And nitrite to nitrate conversion requires oxygen... and the nitrite conversion can be inhibited accordingly... even the article you quote says so...

Sorry....as noted, I know of no information that ammonia slows reproduction of nitrobacter other than your statement, but if you say it is fact I will defer to you.....until I test it experimentally.....I'll get back to you in a couple months. *grin*

The bit you quoted says to me that nitrite inhibits the ability of the bacteria that create it ('bacter) to absorb O2 and that the effect may be noticeable at 4mM (about 18ppm), but the point where more nitrite actually produces slower overall reproduction is at 20mM. I interpret it like a tax code: above X income I need to pay tax (analogous to the 4mM level) and that slows my income, but at a certain point (20mM) I pay over 100% tax and am losing money. I may well be wrong as I have very limited knowledge of advanced biology terminology.

guys,
thanks for your replys,
No one can question you enthusiasm, but some more questions?

so Im looking for my nitrites and ammonia levels to drop & my nitrate to rise?? if so how much do they rise to be considered cycled?
I added some goldies to the system (which has excited my daughter alot) probly done this 4 or 5 days ago. so with that in mind I'll have to keep an eye on the ammonia levels, so probly can't increase the levels like HYDRO was mentioning. will have to let it cycle naturally.
comments are still welcome.

regards
Matt

It doesn't really matter how much your Nitrates rise, so long as you noted that they are coming up as the ammonia and nitrite fall. Of course if you have plants in, they should start using nitrates so it is hard to say how much they might rise. Some people who are heavily planted before they cycle might not seem much nitrates at all because the plants suck them down as fast as they are made.

If you have fish in, no more dosing with ammonia, that is the fish's job now. Just keep an eye on the levels and if you don't already have the system salted, you want 1 ppt of pool salt (best to dissolve it before putting it in.) This will help protect the fish some from high nitrites. And make sure there is plenty of aeration since we don't want to kill the fish that the daughter is so excited about.

TCLinx,
Thanks for the heads up on salting and not adding anymore ammonia (I did stop adding humonia once i added the fish, I also stopped adding seasoil.)

I have noticed that some of the rocket leaves have since showed signs of iron deficiency,
i've purchased some chelated iron (Yates brand) but and i'm not quite sure of how much to put in my 650L system?
any comments are welcome.

regards
Matt

Follow the directions on the packet Matt... mix in a watering can and pour over the plants/growbeds...

Guys,
thought I would post my last water figures for everyones viewing,

Ammonia - .25
Nitrite - 1.0
Nitrate - 40-60
PH - 7.2

it seems that the ammonia and nitrites have come down and the nitrates have come up,
Is this what you would call close to cycled?? How high can the nitrates go before its not good for the fish??
Plants and goldies are doing fine,
Ph moved down once i put some chelted iron in and plants look like they are bouncing back,
I'll update soon with some photos.

regards
Matt

Nitrite dropping is a very good sign that you are nearly there. Shouldn't be long before 'ites are down to zero or trace and you can feed more.

'ates can go very high in hundreds or even to 1000 or more before it causes problems. Very hard to go too high...