Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

ps JP is it crunchy peanut butter?

if it`s crunchy ..count me in

Some info on the bacteria that might be useful.

Nitrifying bacteria reproduce by binary division. Under optimal conditions, Nitrosomonas may double every 7 hours and Nitrobacter every 13 hours. More realistically, they will double every 15-20 hours.

Of course it is crunchy peanut butter. What other kind is there?

cycle times...in the past, I've been able to get an aquarium cycled as fast as maybe 10 days, but that was with all used filter media and a low fish load. Using similar techniques with an AP system, you might have it cycled in 3 weeks if you are reeeally good and have a -lot- of used media, matured aquarium/pond water, and good temperatures.

I think you are right Janet. key words, low fish load and optimum weather and ph conditions. That being said. I am not sure how hardy SP or trout are but Tilapia will take heaps of abuse and do well.

I have manged to kill a few though.

Hi,
mmm. I would prefer an anchovy over peanut butter sandwich if its on a hook and dipped in water

Oh ok I see so the concensus is that cycling the system is about putting the fishes in and not about just having the water moving around and not pouring or leaking out.

I see some good answers... existing water, ph, temp, salinity (if not freshwater) and also medicines which may have been part of the breeding system that I intend to take them from

I figured there was no choice to starting a new system than just doing it.

I still think that is the case as the best and only suggestion so far I can use is put in a small amount of fish first.

I will make the plants starve meantime?
ok a loaded question.

So I see that the concern here is the fish health.
So given I have a water course setup and plants which are waiting for some food, then I can put some fish.

No equation for doing that then I will... mmm. think more.

I have 5000L pure rainwater in a seperate tank as a base.
It may be possible to get some other small creek water but I really dont want to tap into any natural eco systems.

Catch 22
But the trick is still that the water hasnt much of the fishes home which encompasses so many things (fish bacteria ... errr mmm.) and a startup system doesnt occur without first putting some fish in.
Gee I am tempted just to chuck them all in.... ok I wont as Im not sure I have enough fish ordered to break the record or just make a mess.


So I will get as much of the fishes home water as the car will hold.
Or two cars

I see about getting a smaller amount of them and make the tank habitat have some gravel and anchor in some wood.

There is another load of stuff I need to figure out if it can be used but needless to say the system design could materialise anytime... next week.


Thanks guys - you rock !!!!!!

cheers
Shaun

SSX, what size fish tank are you going to start with, on the 1st post you mentioned 500l.

I started with 10 goldfish in 200litres and they got the system cycled okay - to feed the plants in the mean time, you can use seasol (not harmful to the fish)

Shaun... you keep saying you're tempted to just get the fish and throw them in.... Then in the next breathe you say ...



What everybody is quietly trying to suggest is that .....

You settle on the design of your system... posting your design up here would allow people to assist you in much greater detail.

Assemble your system.... then cycle it .... either before adding any fish .... this can be done by providing the new system with ammonia.... either pure ammonia or some have used urine, some fish scraps, seasol etc...

or at least cycling it most of the way then perhaps adding a small number of fish while the remainder of the cycle completes or cycling it with a small amount of fish from the start...

If you really wish to add some fish right from the start then we are suggesting that you do so with a small number, be prepared to test your system at least once a day and be prepared to do numerous water changes at short notice.....

It's all about giving the bacteria in the system time to establish themselves and colonise the growbeds ie ... for the system to cycle

Cycling will take 2-3 weeks at optimal (warm) temperatures. If it's cold, it takes longer.

You seem to be starting from a fixed point of view.... is this based upon past experiences with aquariums or are you receiving advice from someone?

Les I think ssx11 originally had a 500ltr (??) spa which was going to be repaired but has since purchased a tank...



It really would help us all assist if we had some more details .....

Like what are you intending to use for growbeds and how many, how much capacity etc.??

p.s. Don't even think about the health of the plants this early. Have patience to 1. get the bacteria established, then 2. make sure the fish are happy then 3. start worrying about the plants.

I don't know if you have said already, but what medium do you have for the biological filtration/growing media.

I don't seem to recall... are you using gravel, scoria, caly balls? What volume?

Your not going to cycle anything until there is significant surface area for the bacteria to colonize.

Ta, I got it now and just had to know that the bacteria which lives in natural waterways needs to be there as the fishes dont like clean water in the way we do.

Its a very complex thing and scratching the surface, like the bush turkey out back does every day, will help get the hand dirty on this subject.

The 3000L water tank arrives monday and I will position it and setup 5000L/h variable pump tuesday and plumb everything during the rest of the week.

The greenhouse (ebay 3.5x2x2m) I want to grow some normal veggies but also want to try some hard to obtain things like mangosteen.

The various other things probably will amount to about 10000L but I only have 5000L of rain water at the moment and no idea if the gravity ideas to water flow will work well enough in a single pump system.

The growbeds dont exist as there are options for them but still nothing ideal. I dont reallly want to buy commercial ones but I do see why they exist now.

I am in two minds on the gravel bed for the plants. I dont want to use natural rocks which would have some beneficial bacteria already as this is reaping natural resources so I will find a commercial gravel yard/nursery to get them.

I have read that 5/10/20cm round river rocks are a good with a mix of beach sand. So I will get a trailer full of that and some white rocks for the greenhouse floor.

Everything else - is not designed or possibly not even thought of yet.

It is however my best fortune to be the only person in the group of people which have offered help in my experiment, that has no experience with nature really.

So I joined a bushcare group so I know what asparagus weed is today after filling a bag of it after a few hours of pulling it out of a hillside. It feels like a noxious plant for sure.

My daughter 7 knows what it is too as she had to find it for me as initially I couldnt figure it out until I found the spines.

btw: now I need to find out scoria and clay balls. thanks

cheers/ Shaun

You have almost got it Shaun... Fish do need clean water free of toxins like ammonia and nitrite. In most creeks and waterways the bacteria colonize in the sand and gravel. It also helps that creeks are constantly flowing. You will sometimes see stagnant pools of water which looks very nasty. These conditions are what we are trying to avoid.

You will need those growbeds installed and running a least 4 weeks before you add fish. The bacteria don't live in numbers n the water, they live on the surfaces of he tank, the pumps, inside the pipes and on the rocks. The trick with the gravel is that every m3 of gravel has the same area as a football pitch. This area is home to millions and millions of beneficial bacteria.

For a 3000L tank, at high socking density you will need at least 1500L of growing medium to start off with. To get say 300 fish to 1 KG you will need to bump that up to 4500-6000L of growing medium.

Keep in mind that even a cycled system cannot handle 300 fish straight away. You will need to do it gradually. Say first season add 100 fish. Then see how it goes, hen 200 then 300 and you will be able to find the limits of the system.