Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Thanks Doug, I'm honored. I have received a lot of valuable input so far and appreciate you chiming in.



I've been thinking about that. People pour concrete here but it is not hugely popular. I'm not sure if I want to live in this house forever and if I go to sell, I want the greenhouse to be optional -- so it must be somewhat portable.
I have decided to go with a treated wood tank. I've been thinking about it for a week. It will basically be a reinforced plywood box with a liner. I downloaded some handy load tables for lumber and plywood -- designed for concrete forming. In order to be most space efficient and safe for my kids, I'm going to put a plywood floor over the tank with an access hatch. In order to use the space above the tank, I decided to raise the walls 2' inside. Luckily I only had one wall built so I can get by with some minor modifications and then build the other wall the way I want it.



Lighting is contingent upon how much money I make this summer (and how much progress I make on the greenhouse). My preferece is metal Halide lights -- much more lumens per fixture. I have done quite a bit of research on lighting over the years. I may use some sodiums and a few fluorescents appropriately, but my preference is MH. Many people are hysterical about flourescent lights, but actually T5HOs aren't significantly more efficient than T8's (in terms of lumens per watt) T5's are more efficient but not as compact. And all bulbs are rated based on their median light output. Fluorescents degrade more slowly over time than MH so that makes the MH look less efficient. (I'm trying to be brief) However, since I can get 400W or 1000W MH light bulbs fairly inexpensively, it seems like scheduled bulb changes could keep efficiency higher (and take a lot less time than changing Fluorescents).
Anyway, I calculated that I'd need about 45kw worth of lights (yes, 45 1000W lights to grow the whole area) Obviously I won't have plants in the aisles and I can run the lights for 20 hours or more so I can probably get away with 20kw. I've been looking at a 25kw natural gas generator and thinking that might come in handy -- internal combustion engines being only about 30% efficient -- if I can capture 50% of the waste heat, I'll be putting 66,000 Btu into the water. The lights will put off that much heat so with thermal storage and bubble insulation, I might not need to do any supplimental heating. Hopefully this doesn't offend any rabid environmentalists on the board. My rationalle is that I'm footing the bill for a proof of concept greenhouse that could potentially grow food year-round in the Arctic. And I haven't done the math, but I'm pretty sure the energy I'll use to produce vegetables in the winter will be less than it takes to grow them in Florida or California and then truck, ship, or airlift them in heated or refrigerated containers to Alaska. But if I'm wrong and I actually waste energy with my greenhouse, I'm having fun and not burning up gasoline in a snowmachine or 4-wheeler and poluting the pristine wilderness with beer cans (like the typical Alaskan) And I'm with my wife and kids -- and probably friends. Most likely I'll have a lot of company this winter -- Alaskans get very very tired of white and very hungry for green. I might have to charge admission.....

On patents <snip>


I never said that. What I meant to say was that patents are not guaranteed protection.



I agree. Socialism is good about the sacrificing part and not so good about "benefit of the many" part. And that goes for the United States, Canada, UK, Australia -- and any other democratic country that embraces socialistic thinking (ie. Big Government)



I agree with your analagy. Patents keep people from stealing ideas about as much as laws keep people from stealing bricks -- or speeding -- or cheating on their taxes -- or "cooking the books" like Enron.



I couldn't agree more. I forget what I said or the conversation that surrounded it, but I was trying to communicate the fact that getting a patent is not necessarily the easy way to riches. In order to make money, you have to have a way to profit from the idea -- ie. produce it yourself or sell it to someone who can -- and you may need the resources to protect yourself from someone who tries to steal the idea or cheat you out of royalties....

All that to say that I agree with what you said and I must have miscommunicated my intent originally.

On the topic of law, a friend of mine (who happens to be an engineer) said he thinks there should be more engineers and less lawyers in government. Lawyers think that the right combination of words will solve any problem. Engineers think more of action.

DB and EMS, is foam put under the slab too, or just on the sides of the slab?

EMS, here in Alberta I know of a greenhouse operation that uses a staggering amount of power to light their growspace. Apparently during the darkest days of winter they profit more with lights than they would during the longest summer days without lights. Granted this does nothing to the model of reducing energy usage and the backyard scale AP, but it demonstrates that with enough capital it is not a unprofitable venture.
I also wouldn't doubt that in the long run you would still be using less energy that shipping the same produce from the lower states.

Energy for food is a obvious requirement, especially in your area. For someone to condemn you for using it would be quite foolish given the degree of wastage that occurs everywhere else in the industrialized world.

just on the sides.

Any chance of a link ems?

Your description of the male behavior and markings is classic. I second Janet's recommendation to put a small clay pot in the tank to limit the male's line of sight. In addition I recommend putting a small clay pot in each corner of the tank (with the opening facing the corner) and then put one pot in the arena (in the middle) and you will see the males start to corner off thier territory. With 11 fish, you could very well have 6 or more males. With the clay pot method you will at least get 5 identified. Once identified you could take the males and put them in the ten gallon tank temporarily and let the remaining fish start to take over the pots.

Females generally like to hang out in safe areas with each other, they tolerate other females in thier pot and will not chase them out.

Regarding the need for energy, I suggest that you look into this.

If you can gain acces to used cooking oil from restaurants you could run your generator on biodiesel.

If you have access to wasted food from foodstores, you could run your generator on ethanol.

If you have access or can grow switchgrass or other biomass then you could run your genset on a gasifier.

You could also run your genset on "dinofuel" but set it up in a manner that will facilitate conversion to a more sustainable method such as these later one. After all you are likely to have your hands full in the coming months.

These methods are not only sustainable but they could very well reduce your cost. Biodiesel, if feasible in your area, would be really interesting because it does not require research. It is a proven method. Often you can get the oil for free so your only cost is the original setup, some chemicals and your labor. For now it also appears to be more energy efficient than ethanol.

Warning, anyone of these methods have drawbacks. In particular if you have young children, security regarding operation, and, storage and handling of chemicals is of primary importance - so much so that I have ruled them out for myselve at this time. Also there might be licensing requirements in your area. (There will be in the case of Ethanol)

julien, natural gas is available 24/7 and this is an exemplary use of the energy. Biodiesel has one more problem in cold climates...it gels at low temps (not even very low). The recycling of cooking oil to second use is a good thing, but much less reliable and more time consumming to deal with. You mentioned the really nasty chemistry and danger from that. The availability and cost of the required chemicals (which ship as hazardous materials) is another issue. The natural gas is there to use and this is an efficient and useful thing to do with it. What better use could the same gas be put to? Or do we just leave it in the ground for some reason? Anyway, all sources of power should be considered and the most efficient and practical should be chosen.

Welcome Julien...have you started up an AP system yet? You are another cold climate APer. We need to keep ideas coming for this special need.

I just learned about the bubble insulation from ems...this forum is great for new ideas and even not so new that I have not heard of.

I have thought of those options but each system requires space, capital outlay, and more time. My first option would be to use cooking oil. I'm told that diesel engines can operate on 100% vegetable oil if it is warmed up enough and that a diesel engine will tollerate up to 30% gasoline. My first choice would be to cut cooking oil with gasoline -- that way I don't have to make biodiesel.

But so far time and money have limited my progress.

If I had a woodlot, I would use wood heat -- probably a wood chip boiler -- possibly with a Tesla turbine or some other type of heat engine to extract power. However, I only have .46 of an acre with a 50' highway on the front and a 10' utility easement on one side and the back. Fortunately it is a long skinny piece of land so I have room for a house, a greenhouse a place to park and a small front yard. I'm not even sure the neighbors would appreciate a generator running, much less all the barrels and equipment I'd need for biodiesel and ethanol or biogas production.... Perhaps I should start another topic about energy. Travis of barrelponics fame reportedly runs his whole system on 4 watts......

Right now, I need to get off my computer and work on the greenhouse. Building it and getting it operating are a big enough challenge for now. Energy savings will be priority #1 after I get it up and running.

A tree takes 40 years to mature and will be burned in less than a day.
Furthernore my wood lot is 6 hours away, transportation is an issue.

On that wood lot I have 5 acres of land that could grow switchgrasss. I can grow enough of it in one year to take care of my energy needs for that year. That's better dynamics than wood chips. Also it can be pelletised and that can help transportation but then so can wood chips.

I would love to put my hand on a woodstove activated testla turbine but I do not know where they can be found. If anybody knows please let me know.

On this, enjoy the work on your greenhouse!

6 hours is a long way to haul wood chips. And switchgrass might take care of your energy needs for a year, but aquiring and operating the equipment to harvest, dry and pelletize the switchgrass would be very costly.

As far as I know, there is no affordable small-scale biomass-to-electricity generator on the market -- I've looked. The closest would be wood or charcoal gasifiers coupled to an internal combustion engine -- however, the efficiencies and extra maintenance are still issues.

I planted another indoor growbed this afternoon and stood up a second wall on my greenhouse. I set up an arch and discovered that it is going to hit the powerline to my house. So now I need to figure out a way to keep the powerline out of the way.

You may need to call the local utility provider to have them tension or move it...may not be too cheap.

I think I may be able to move it myself. It is very close to clearing.