Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Sminfiddle,
Hay I only just came across those pictures of the rubbermain with the fittings through the bottom. I'll just say this, if you run the fittings through the bottom, you will have more difficulty installing the drain pipe under it and if there are any problems, you will have a hard time accessing it. Those rubbermaids are deep!!!! I went with an elbow out the bottom side where there is a flat spot which will let me deal with the external parts of the plumbing without disturbing the bed. So what if the bottom couple inches doesn't drain, the bed is like 24 inches deep on the inside so there is plenty of depth of flood and drain to make for a really good bio-filter.

I was thinking the following:
-> GB (RMSTGB) on a stand
About ten inches to a foot, some plumbing room
-> Drains in the bottom
One each Overflow and Siphon standpipes for the oval tanks, overflow and FLOUT if using a 300-gallon RMST
-> Bottom higher than the start of the NFT track
A fall of almost a foot is already there from the "ground level" of the proposed growbed plaza to the pond rim. Additional height from a stand opens up the underplumbing and gives me some play for the NFT.
-> Gravel depth planned 16" to 18", not the full two-feet of RMST depth
Those tanks are way deep, indeed. I am still in a bit of denial that my 1 foot of stand + 18" of medium + happily growing plants will get too high to harvest.
Hmm.
I love my sugar snap peas and snow peas, and usually put up a 7 foot or higher trellis for these. Don't want to think about starting out three feet up and climbing up from there... unless there's golden eggs or something at the top.



Did you make a new hole in the side or use the existing drain?

Rick

I found out the hard way that the so called "1 1/2 inch drain" in those tanks is actually not. The bulkhead fitting seems to be a single sided undersize 1 1/4" threads. So, I put the plug back in and drilled my own hole for a uniseal to take 1 1/2" pipe. I drilled about five holes in the elbow I stuck on the inside of the pipe I stuck into the tank. The tanks drain fast.

I've also found that the height with them pretty full of gravel works well with them sitting on just 4" blocks or perhaps even on the ground but then you would have difficulty with fall for a siphon. I'm flooding mine with an automated valve and the standpipe with holes as this doesn't require the extra fall to work. Timed pumping and the standpipe with holes in the bottom elbow would also work if the pump is appropriate to the purpose.

I'm still inclined toward continuous pumping and auto siphoning, with these as input adjustment to growbeds. I have to wonder if anyone has automated this type of valve for AP...

Continuous pumping ultimately to be alternated between two pumps, one-hour duty cycle... If I can find the timer that can do it.

Hoowee, big stock tanks on sale.
320 Gallon Poly Stock Tank SALE
Three of these in a line, and a few yards of gravel...

A normal ball valve will probably be cheaper and allow finer adjustment...

And, yep you can get automated "gate" valves of the type you link to... at about $200+AU... a valve....

Nah, I'm not interested in automating valves, but I know some are. Just haven't seen anyone try the car-door actuators (or washing-machine brakes, I like that idea) paired with one of these push-pull valves.
In greywater reuse systems, these blade valves are less clog-prone than gate valves, and create less of an anaerobic zone in front of 'em when closed, than a ball valve does. I think they'd be attractive as "gates" used on a FT-to-GB water supply trough. Easy access for maintenance it would seem.
A pair of bladex valves is less expensive than a 3-way diverter, but I'm digressing into grey water topic... another obsession...

Been looking at your diagrams some. I was sold on CHIFT PIST from the minute I read about it. While most seem to believe a "clean" sump is the way to go, you could actually achieve CHIFT (or pond) by digging a deep sump and allow pond to overflow into it. I doubt the "dirty" sump would get all that dirty as long as the pumps were configured right to pick up the solids. Then pump up to grow beds and use Rupe's spider to sequence the beds....these could then all drain back to the waterfall. TC seems to swear by the constant flow. Anyway, if you decided to dig, I'll be more then happy to come help. The ground is nice and soft right now. Been laying sprinkler pipe and digging looking for my electrical feed all weekend.

Could even bring the guitar and a few cold ones by...

Anyway - looking nice and don't feel like you are alone in the work...we can probably "dig" up a few more people to help...

Mark

Yeah, and there IS a drain outlet opposite the 'falls, toward the house, looks like it surfaced 2 meters from the pond to the original pump station. Now it's a cut-off PVC pipe stub sticking up.
Compromise on the dirty-sump situation would be to dig a round hole and bury (or pour and line) a swirl tank there. Conical bottom ya know? Suck out the crud from the pointy bottom periodically, yuck, or continuously slowly with a screw/solids lifter (hmmm that could be solar powered)...

That's close quarters for digging, though. May have an issue with neighbor's fig tree roots there too.

My CHIFT PIST conversion ideas (conversion? It's not even a CHIP FIST system yet!) have run more along the lines of an above-ground fish tank instead. Could put such a tank on a deck that half-covers the sump/pond. Could put it on a stand way over to the left (fence corner, more shade).

Then I had a crazier idea...

The other day I was eyeballing the two rainwater tanks, 2 meters tall, still not plumbed in to (or from) anything, 1000 Liters each, hi 1-inch inlet near the top and low 1.5-inch outlet, 8-inch "manhole" in the top. Green and almost opaque.
"Hmmm, could cut the top off for a FT but that'd be a waste and it'd be too deep to net anything..."
Then I thought, flip one on its side! It would still fit against the fence in the Alley Of Narrowness.
Raise it up on a cradle to a sufficient height to gravity-flow to whatever deep growbeds I end up with.
Rotate to angle the outlet/inlet toward the fence, 30 to 45 degrees off vertical.
Cut a door out of the top (new top, formerly "side") and piano-hinge it.
Install a window in the manhole! Birdies and kitties no get my fishies...

Rick

Since I started planning it, you might say the system design has evolved...

Originally I was going to add some anacharis to the waterfall basins and buy a solar-powered pump to feed the existing plumbing.
When de-mucking the bottom, I found a FloTec pump and plugged it in, went plant shopping.
Could not find Anacharis in stock so Googled for plants for filtration and that's when I had the Rabbit Hole Moment... found both Backyard Aquaponics Forum and the Oasis greywater site.

Plan evolved to graveling-up the two waterfall basins and planting out, but I found out the middle basin leaked (still does).
Found a TetraPond bio filter and started cycling it.
Plan C: Install a tub/tote in the leaky basin and plumb it for siphoning.
D: Back to bypassing the waterfall, set up a 100-gallon growbed and NFT back to the pond.
E: Two 100-gallons mounted above two 300-gallons and NFT back to the pond.
F: Gotta do something, maybe just feed the biofilter into 15-25 feet of NFT and build growbeds out of lumber and liner.
G: Add subirrigated containers with corn and build a more attractive lightweight growbed of Kerdi polyethylene over drywall, because you can make curved shapes of the sheetrock and cover the visible parts of the Kerdi with tile.
H: Two 5X7 lined-lumber growbeds drained by a shared outboard FLOUT
I: same as J plus a row of small citrus in parallel, flouting down to a row of larger trees in parallel, both flood-n-flout
J: Two 300-gallon Rubbermaid Stock Tanks (RMST) on alternating pumps, internal mounted FLOUTs
K: Two or three 300 gal RMSTs expandable to 4 or 6, sequenced by a spider valve on one pump - NFT will have to have a separate pump if I even use any. Should be plenty of room for lettuce and basil in those RMSTs though!

I still plan to use Expanded Shale which is 30% of the price of Hydroton.
I wanted to trigger the spider valve each time a growbed drained, but I am being counseled to either put the pump on a timer or insert a sufficiently large siphoned basin before the spider. I'd need to figure out how much water will flood 37 cu. feet of expanded shale. Or abandon the idealism of continuous pumping?

Rick

Simplest way to make sure enough water flows to a grow bed, use something the size of the grow bed as your header tank before the indexing valve. Yes, this will likely provide twice as much water as is needed to flood the grow bed but it is fine to have excess water flow through a grow bed on the flood cycle. At the minimum, I would make the header tank about 60% of the volume of the grow beds to be flooded. (this is my normal recommendation on sump tank sizing as well) Lucky part is, if using the spider, you only need to flood a section of the system at a time so the header tank (flout or siphon or whatever) only needs to be big enough to flood such.

37 cubic feet, of gravel. Well that comes to around 277 gallons which is only a little less than the 300 gallon stock tanks so I would guess that the same "header" tank could service both. I would suggest that a 200 gallon stock tank might serve the purpose though a 300 gallon could work too (you can always set the flout or siphon not to use the full volume.)

Not a coincidence at all- 37 cu ft came from the 300 gallon stock tank volume. Less a couple of inches just to keep the media below the rim.
Wanted to know how much to inquire about at the soil yard - 1.4 yards per growbed! Round it up to a yard-and-a-half.

But happily, expanded shale is under $100 a yard. Imagine filling one with the brown round stuff - I get about $460 a bed.

Thanks for the reality check on header tank - ideas still churning around and a timer is always doable. Web4Deb's flush bucket comes to mind too. Fun stuff, this aquamaponics!

Rick

Around here the 1/2" brown river rock is about $52 a ton and it takes about 1.25 tons to make a cubic yard. The clay balls might be nice and light but I could not justify buying it.

I can't see buying the clay balls either (well maybe for small-scale, indoor, pretty houseplants). The lowest price I have found, on the German product, is $25 per 40L bag if bought by the pallet.

Expanded shale is smaller, irregular, almost as porous, and a lot more local (there are different suppliers/brands but they all seem to be made in Dallas TX) and a fraction of the cost. It Will cost more than gravel but host a bazillion times more bacteria...