Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Oh, btw, the algae will probably cause swings in your pH through the day. Measure your pH at the same time of day if you want to see where the vinegar/lemon juice treatment is taking you.

Ok,
How do you determine the right amount of vinegar/lemon juice?

Does this really work? I haven’t tried to alter my PH it's at 8.2 in my aquariums but looks like I'm going to have to lower it for my Aquaponic setup. The only reliable way I've read about to lower PH is to remove the buffering ions from your water then the PH will lower/change. This can be accomplished by some kind of Tap Water Purifier unit/RO or using peat. I have read that all Vinegar/lemon juice will do is drop it for a day then the buffering ions raise it back up causing PH swings which is really bad for aquarium fish/plants.

Part of the problem of getting a balance to occur is some of the componants are missing.
If you look at a stream- it has all kinds of biodiversity, if we restrict that diversity to a mono culture or even several layers of mono culture then we are going to have a hard time trying to get balance.
The hardest thing to do is to create an enviroment we don't understand.
Moving to achieve a sustainable balance is a trick, and once you have acheived that trick life become easy(ier).
I have not tried to answer your question but to give another perspective!

I own your perspective!

However, I have a very high ph and I don't know how to sustainably balance it. I have not as of yet added anything, because of exactly what you just said, however, my plants really don't seem to like it and I don't seem to be building any form of bacteria. I have had fish in this system for over a year and the best I can tell, it is the size of it that is saving the situation. I can't seem to get the system to cycle.

I really would like to avoid all the "add this and that" if at all possible, and it seems it "ought" to be possible.

Mathew- I figure your refering to my comments?
I asked my self what I am missing from the equation(sp?).
..and then realised it was heaps.
Packing in as much divesity as possible, and 'letting' the water body
bloom, for me it is sink or swim!
Trust me I sunk a few times!
Fortunately not too much was critical.
Bare in mind there are many different operational systems.
To my way of thinking ( and Im not always right) and for me, my water body I see as like our skin,
as such is a reflection of what we put into the system.
We metabolise our consumption the varied input can have devestating consequences.
So it is one step at a time.
cycling will ocur if you have or are getting towards balance but not before.
Did I say anything in that rant?
C1

Matthew. Tony and others, you need to get your head around this chart.... chart 1

It shows how some elements are effectively unavailable to plants at certain pH values... what in hydroponics is called "lock out".

In fact you can see from the chart that a pH of 6.5 is the preferred optimal value.... consequently the "holy grail" of hydroponiocs....

Temperature has a marked effect on salt precipitation in hydroponics....

Ammonia has a similar effect in binding nutrient availablity in AP.... probably due to the interaction with the bacteria.... and the fact that it alters your pH

Along with temperature and DO it also has the ability to affect the health of your fish

It's all about acheiving a balance.... over time the system will change and buffer slowly .... meantime give it a boost toward the optimal values....

Do so slowly and measurably though.... keep testing and adjust until you see an effect... then stop and retest the next day.... readjust if necessary...

So bare in mind the effect ammonia has also.... chart 2

Thanks Rup,

Janet had sent this to me recently and it was very helpful. however, I am still in a high ph situation with a large body of water. I am hoping that once I have the GB's all in and running that the things will settle down. I still don't understand why I am just barely (and even then only on occasion) showing any amonia even with heavy feeding. I show no NO2 or NO3 either. Theres is plenty of surface area and the fish have been thriving for a long time. I have a 19 cat's that are almost a full two pounds at 2 feet in length and Oct. will be 1 year (as well as plenty of other fish), so, I know they are producing "some" ammonia.

Well, there is my frustration.

Sounds to me like your system is functioning just fine Matthew.....

All of the ammonia being generated by any excess fish food and fish wastes are being converted into nitrates for your plants....

Sounds perfect to me.... you could up the food rate a little and see if you get a reading.... but really, why mess with it .... unless you think the fish could use more feeding and convert it to growth

Of course the other option is that you could perhaps stock more fish

Everyones experience is that pH will drift with time anyway and most people ultimately end up having to try to buffer back toward 7.0

Old adage.... if it ain't broke, don't mess with it

I hear you, my problem is the plants. The few that I have in the system seem to be starving. Believe it or not, the supposedly invasive water hyacinths have just ..... died off. I know there is plenty of DO, The water smells and tastes fine, but my plants are not making it.

C1, I had missed your comments, and yes, I follow you.

Ok Matthew, then its probably back to ...

(1) your fish aren't producing enough waste to convert for your plants

(2) your pH is starving your plants of essential elements

What size tank and how many fish again??

About 57,000 liters, about 25-30 kg of fish, there are several houndred fingerlings (which don't weigh much, in the tank) and 19 cats, 9 large mouth bass, 20+ Adult Blue Gill, and another few houndred Blue Gill fingerlings. The Cats comprise most of the mass, by far.

tony, by the high ammonia and zero nitratesit looks like your system has not cycled yet. don't worry about the algae yet. use the ammonia chart to see if the ammonia is tolerable at your PH and temp, if not change out some water which will both reduce the ammonia and lower the PH.

Steve

I see what you are saying Steve, we hijacked his thread.... Sorry Tony.

So where should we talk about this? I will put it over here, http://backyardaquaponics.com/forum/vie ... 5870#75870

You were the last one to comment there too Steve....

Fellow APers, I don't mind the hijack, it is in keeping with my issues and the replies are useful to me. The charts are useful for all.
Now that they are in this thread, I know where to find them easily.

I hope you manage to solve your AP problems soon.

Tony