Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Hi, I'm new here

We have an outbuilding (MS) that used to be a sweet potato curing house; it has a cement floor (with no drains...) and wood walls. The broad side gets full sun and I was planning on putting in glass brick wall and making an air-exchange that operates with a vent and a fan...somehow linked to a thermometer so it opens/starts as soon as it gets too hot. (I have seen things like this before, so I know it's out there). This would be for a family-sized operation only, hopefully with plenty to share but still small. I am afraid to start as I have never done anything like this before, and it could get expensive, and just fail...so I'm looking for help!

My big questions:

How to keep the heat/warm it up in winter if it gets very cold, as it will sometimes here ( we have had snow!) (Black wall hangings in winter? Switch to black tubs in winter???? Add hot water...?

Whether carp are more temp-adjustable than tilapia and would be a better choice

What sort of solar stuff I need to buy to run things

How much if any should be done manually (ie, you could use a fulcrum of some kind, or a pulley system, under the tanks for gravity feed...or even use an auto jack (but, how?)...

I am a retired chef, female, more of an artist/gardener than a techno-geek: I really don't know what to even ask, but I'm sure ready to take notes from any who are kind enough to throw a little light on things!

First off depending on where your are in Hinds you may have another option. Wind. I would look at wind power for your pumping system. Solar is great and I'm installing a grid tie system on my house starting this year. the downfall to a solar system is having enough juice to keep things going through the night. Batteries get real expensive (REAL EXPENSIVE!!!!)

You need to think about your system and design it to meet your needs and future plans (Expand-ability). What are you planning on using for fish tanks? What about Grow beds? How many of each? Types of Grow Bed? How much Pump do your need? AIR-ATION!! Insulation, is Glass Block really economical? There also is GEO Thermal heating and cooling.

If you want you can PM me and drop me a number I'll call you or I'll respond with mine. Lots to talk about.

JG

Unless it is a very windy location, PV panels will always produce more output than a wind turbine generator for the money spent. Not very many people live in such locations. For example here, $500 worth of PV (about 500W these days) delivers more in an hour than the same money spent on a 200W WTG does in a week, and sometimes in a month!
Better off spending the money on more PV and a better battery- I recommend LiFePO4s, as they can be discharged much more deeply than Lead-acid batteries, ie 2-3X more, and have the same life span. Yes they are more expensive up front, but they are less expensive for the work they can do, compared with a good quality Lead-acid battery, in the long term

I was thinking of wind to pump not generate power. Old timey Well pump. Use the wind to do mechanical work.

And how do you pump (circulate the water) if there is no wind?

I don't think we have enough wind here, most of the time...there is more wind along the Gulf Coast, we are inland.

I thought the glass brick would be MORE insulating...yes, I guess it would be more expensive, but I was also considering its imperviousness to storm or human damage, as well. The bldg. has a tin roof so I was going to replace that part with translucent panels.

What kind of tanks/grow beds; guess I need to actually go out there and measure the inside and then look at available options. I will do that first and then get back on here, thanks, y'all.

my 2cents:

going grid-free is a noble goal, but can be very expensive.

my recommendation is to start with passive solar - getting the environment as efficient as possible before you start adding bells and whistles....

1. insulate all walls, ceilings that are not facing the sun. (slows heat loss, or summer heat gain). insulate fish tanks, piping.
2. add mass to absorb sunlight and re-lease solar energy back to space when sun cools off. (this will temper environment both heating and cooling)
Rule of Thumb for every square foot of Sun Facing glass, provide 150 sf of masonry/concrete/rock surface to absorb sunlight not being used by plants.
( - or 4 gallons of water per square feet of glass)

(your concrete floor will be a good start)...add some mass on the back wall or stack some water barrels in the sun. (a 55 gallon blue barrel will offset 220 sf of glass)

hay bales or straw bales are a good way to insulate back or sidewalls and hold temps stable.
---
Now that you have made the environment as stable and energy efficient as possible, you can go to the next phase.
3. get local fish that will survive in your local climate - i am considering bluegill (a sunfish) here in Texas, instead of Tilapia - they can better survive occasional freezes, and quite well if there is an electrical or mechanical failure in my system. - they are also well suited to summer heat.
4. if you need supplemental heat (not sure of your local climate), try passive solar collector on roof - a drain back system would allow minimum input, can use an exchange tank to transfer heat to aquaponics water (no copper), a water tank or a hydronic flooring for additional heat to space. (but a pellet stove might work just as well)
5. now all you have to worry about is lights, air and water pumps, maybe a fan if you don't have natural ventilation. and if your glass provides enough natural lighting for plant growth, then maybe all you really need is a good flashlight to tuck your fishes in at night.

you might then afford-ably provide sufficient wind or solar electricity to run what must have power....or just some batteries for emergency power outages.

i push the passive method because it is efficient, reliable, and does not require a high degree of technology or money to work -

all the best -
dana

Dana, Thank You!!! for the great insights...I had not thought of mass to absorb and redistribute heat (like the concrete floor) as a good thing. I had considered color: would you recommend painting the floor and back wall white, (for summer) and then throwing down/hanging black landscape cloth in cold weather? Or using black/natural all year?

I wonder about bass (seen as more desirable food fish than bluegills but requiring the same environment) also have looked into Red Claw Crayfish, you ought to check it out!!!. They are massive! Up to a pound apiece, with 3 times the tail meat proportionally as natives; more like langostinhos...they like dirty uncirculated water, are fine with crowding, eat virtually anything nasty and decomposed although you can feed them (maybe finish on clear water and clean feed for taste). The only problem is they hate cold... http://farmingcrawfish.com/crawfish_red ... plier.html

I do plan on some kind of solar lights/power system but know nothing about photovoltaics; sounds complex and I get bogged every time I try to make those decisions; any helpful newbie info here, or do I just learn by trial and error? (in this case, maybe expensive mistakes...)

I read about an air-exchange system somewhere, where you cut a square door high up in the wall on one side and rig up a support system inside it to hold a long, pierced, plastic sack that would lie on the support frame. Cut another square hole in the same wall lower down and to the other side, and mount an exhaust fan. The slashes in the plastic sack allow even and more gradual dispersa;l downward of cooler air when you open the door and turn on the fan. I am thnking of first putting this in without a fan and without a sensor to open/turn on with rise in temps; I will post on that but it will be a while, maybe next Spring.

I am doing my very first veggie garden with peeponics right now, in the house (laundry room); adding both kelp and worm teas to the aged "p"; growing leafy winter vegs so far...I will grow it from there. The guy I hire to do things is building a church right now, so the greenhouse is on hold, but this is really fun and I will probably keep things growing everywhere...

Thanks again, God bless! Betsy

Lexan (aka polycarbonate) with UV protection would make a good covering. I've seen twinwall lexan panels (for example - http://www.growerssupply.com/farm/supplies/cat1a;gs_greenhouse_polycarbonate.html) hit with a chunk of concrete that showed no damage. Probably be more resistant to human damage than the glass blocks although it can be cut with a saw or knife.

This comes as corrugated and is probably what you're thinking of putting on your roof if your roof is currently corrugated metal - here's one common brand - http://www.palramamericas.com/Suntuf

I'd expect that you would be fine even in cold weather as long as it doesn't last more than a few days. You're average highs look to be in the upper 50's F during the day at the coldest part of the year (lows in the upper 30's). Having the greenhouse will raise the highs and lows 5 to 10 degrees. The AP system water will also act as a thermal buffer. Insulation will help as will adding extra thermal mass but you may not need much.

My climate is mild but colder than your's. I have a little 6 x 8 greenhouse, my fish tank and half of my system is outside of the greenhouse (total water volume about 1000 gallons). I didn't heat at all and the outside temp got into the 20's for a long period but the system water never went below 33 F. My guess is your temps would run at least in the 40's and probably higher with no insulation at all.

My system is about as leaky heat wise as you can get so just to give you an idea of what's possible - A well built, well insulated solar greenhouse in my climate, that was used for Aquaculture back in the 70's, recorded outdoor temps as low as 7 F while indoors the lowest air temp got to 64 degrees F. The lowest water temp was 64 F inside and 32 F outside. The numbers I've posted were not necessarily from the same dates but were the extremes.

Hope this helps.

Make sure to account for ventilation needs. You'll need to release some of the humidity in there from time to time.

Hi
You should read zsazsa's thread viewtopic.php?f=18&t=9276

http://aes.missouri.edu/bradford/educat ... nhouse.php
https://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/viewhtml.php?id=59

cheers

Have a look at Trombe walls - could be your simple no-power-use solution. Done correctly the Trombe can cool in summer and warm in winter and even reduce heat leakage at night.

Check out Trombe Wall and Attached Sunspace - they have an article on use of them.

I like the sunspace idea - wicking beds in there could be a great way to grow plants that are less suited to the interior conditions.

mudcat:



i know extremely little about photvoltaics. it is important to look at the payback for the system. after you have calculated the power load multiply it by the kilowatt hours per year. Do the math for plugging into the power company, and then for a photovoltaic system, including installation for both to your building. then divide the Photovoltaic price by the Power Company price, and you will get the number of years before you break even......if it costs you more than 10 years to break even, you might rethink....because at that point you start having to replace things that break (hail storms, etc)....
it may just be cheaper to add battery backup or generator to the electric supply from the Utility company for emergencies.

do the same math for wind generators if you have sufficient open area and wind constancy.

but say you still want to do it....size it for the equipment you need to run....add up your watts for pumps fans and lights. multiply for the hours per day you need. most of the resources i have read urge a battery system for backup, not car batteries, but those designed for deep draw. add a safety factor to prevent draining batteries. most places selling solar collectors will do a kit. start small, and add on when you can.

i would start by finding a relative or neighbor, friend of friend who is an electrical wizard to help in the selection and sizing. (and maybe installation, too!) (trade garden produce or some of those future crawfish!)

fyi, some discussion of this in Meg Stout's "complete idiot's guide to Aquaponic Gardening"bb

as to color of surfaces....when you need more natural light you want reflective or light color surfaces. when you want to absorb heat you want dark colors. water filled barrels should absolutely be dark. i'd leave the concrete alone. maybe fine-tune later.

best,
dana

if your budget does not include poycarbonate greenhouse twinwall panels, try UV resistant poly sheeting sold on greenhouse websites. this will give you a 4year durability, and very easy to install. i sourced some custom cut to length for 10cents a square foot plus shipping. (folks out of Maine Agriculturesolutions.com)

just a thought.

but the principal reason for this post is to thank you. thinking about your problem solved mine...i have an urban lot in dallas, only 1/8 acre...putting up a freestanding greenhouse was going to eat up a good bit of land relative to my tiny lot...i had thought to put a leanto on the long wall of my detached garage, but underground utilities were in the way, so, no go..... i was going to have to go to plan B - freestanding (worrying how not to waste all the passive solar out the back wall (north facing).

i ordered the supplies, hit a delivery delay from big box building materials store, and alluvial rains...and more alluvial rains.

the upshot, is that i was able to have a 3am brainstorm last night - there was just enough room obey zoning restrictions/setbacks, tuck a greenhouse between the back fence and the back wall of the garage IF i tore out the back wall and tucked the greenhouse 4-5ft INSIDE the back of the old garage.....so, less to build, more energy conserved tucked partially into the building, better ratio of greenhouse glazing to mass, less energy loss by using the garage as shelter....and the 60 year old siding on the back was due for replacement, so i win every which way. (except that now have twice as much greenhouse poly as i need for the new scheme). and i'll still have room to park my sub-compact in the garage when i'm done.

so, thanks to you, the rain, and Home Depot. i now have an efficient more affordable plan for my aquaponics greenhouse

A real simple, low cost solution for DIY solar when you also have mains available..

Run one of those 12 volt transformer pumps directly off a single solar panel. Wire in a relay so that when there is insufficient sun hitting the panel, the pump is powered off the mains. No batteries etc.