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| Sumps, to inground or not to inground? http://byap.backyardmagazines.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=20649 |
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| Author: | rjinAZ [ Feb 14th, '14, 23:15 ] |
| Post subject: | Sumps, to inground or not to inground? |
Hello, Being from the fish keeping hobby I'm an absolute fan of having sumps in those systems. I am days away from starting my first IBC system that Is most definitely going to be expanded upon. My current materials are 2 - 275 gallon IBC 1 - 55 Gallon Barrel As I am kicking around design ideas I am currently at decision point about my sump. Do I want to bury an IBC? Do I want to dig out and use a pond liner? Hoping to get some real world experience from the group here. My readings have turned up a few negatives about burying IBCs Buoyancy, Supporting from collapsing when filling, etc. thanks for any guidance! |
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| Author: | CJ-California [ Feb 15th, '14, 06:15 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sumps, to inground or not to inground? |
Bury it... 3/4 of the way in the ground and put some plywood/foam sheeting around it. I like the IBC's in the ground for sumps because I have nightmares  about gofers and other boring rodents getting into a liner and draining the system.Also, if you plan on future expansion make sure you have enough room for additional sumps. (Give your self room to dig without moving other FT or GB around.) |
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| Author: | Gunagulla [ Feb 15th, '14, 06:44 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sumps, to inground or not to inground? |
Burying your ST helps with temperature regulation, something you need in Tucson (I was near Oracle at Biosphere 2 for a fair bit of time in 1999/2000). I have my ST and FT buried, and haven't had water over 27C, despite air temps up to 42C this summer. |
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| Author: | Stuart Chignell [ Feb 15th, '14, 07:54 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sumps, to inground or not to inground? |
I'm saying this a lot tongue in cheek but... My sump isn't buried and we have had temps up to 43C and my FT temp hasn't gone above 26 and that was after 5 days heat in a row (37, 37, 38, 43, 41). Gungalla's system and weather are very different and not an apples and apples comparison. Whether burying your sump is a good idea for you or not depends on many, many variables. One of which is how much do you enjoy digging? |
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| Author: | rjinAZ [ Feb 16th, '14, 04:33 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sumps, to inground or not to inground? |
Thanks for the input everybody I appreciate it. I want to bury the sump mostly so I can run the piping close to the ground mostly so I can run the plumbing close to the ground and build a walkway over it. I have a cutting question for my 2 ibcs. Option 1:cut the tops for grow beds, and with the remainder bottoms I'll have a fish tank and a sump. I'll end up with a smaller fish tank. Get another ibc for a full fish tank later. Option 2: full ibc for fish tank, the other for a grow bed and a sump. Add more grow beds later. Thanks again. I just got back from buying some block and silicone to seal my caps! I'm going 2" drains, 3/4" pump lines. |
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| Author: | joblow [ Feb 16th, '14, 05:19 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sumps, to inground or not to inground? |
rjinAZ, Not that long ago I changed my fish tank and position of the my sump tank and it's not a job that you would plan too do, it was a major task and with a bit of forward planning you wont need to fall into the same trap. It was the addiction of aquaponics that got me, I didn't think or know that I would expanding my original system so there was no forethought given too sumps or larger fish tanks and when that time came everything needed to move. It was an uphill battle from the start trying too manage the height of the fish tank without burying the sump. In hindsight it would have been much easier to bury the sump, but because there was a large section of concrete under where I needed to place the sump I decided not too bury it. The difference between the height of the FT water and the top of the sump made it very hard too plumb and would only allow the use of 50mm pipe and not 90mm because of the fall needed to get the water too flow at a reasonable rate. The sump had too be cut down to a maximum of 500 litres to achieve as much fall as I could without losing too much sump capacity. Had I taken the time too bury the sump I could have had a full 1000 litre sump and no plumbing problems. Plan your system to suit what you need and do it in one operation and you'll save yourself a lot of grief. I would advise burying your sump for all the above reasons. Joe |
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| Author: | rjinAZ [ Feb 16th, '14, 05:25 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sumps, to inground or not to inground? |
Thanks Joe, that makes me lean towards burying a full ibc as a sump that'll give me more capacity in the long run. I'm sure I will inevitably have to expand the sump, but a full ibc should allow me to operate a few more beds on a flood and drain than a partial ibc. |
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| Author: | joblow [ Feb 16th, '14, 06:05 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sumps, to inground or not to inground? |
If you can use a full IBC you shouldn't have any worry, mine at 500 litres is borderline and I can't add anymore growbeds. It doesn't need too be buried all the way just enough to get you fall right, and make sure you use something to line the outside of the cage to stop the the back fill collapsing the plastic tank. |
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| Author: | rjinAZ [ Feb 17th, '14, 10:36 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sumps, to inground or not to inground? |
You mention "get my fall right". Is there a rule of thumb to this? Or is it pretty much just trial and error |
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| Author: | Stuart Chignell [ Feb 17th, '14, 11:12 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sumps, to inground or not to inground? |
There are two ways: 1. guess it 2. engineer it Either way do your plumbing so you can adjust it. Even once you have it working right still make sure you can adjust it later because you often find that small changes can seriously effect the way a system operates. A mistake I made on one of my systems was that the outlets were just the "right" height on the side of the tank. As the system matured the drains stopped working as well so the height of the water above the drains increased. If I had put the drain lower with a stand pipe to raise the water level in the tank that would have been better. Later the stand pipe could have been removed shortened and replaced. |
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| Author: | rjinAZ [ Feb 17th, '14, 11:21 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sumps, to inground or not to inground? |
Thanks Stuart. So running with that line of thinking my initial plan of plumbing my drain lines through the plastic would limit my adjustability (sump). So I would assume that having my drain pipes emptying over the side will give me more room to tune later if necessary. |
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| Author: | vk3laj [ Feb 17th, '14, 12:16 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sumps, to inground or not to inground? |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFdtOOgYAEo |
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| Author: | vk3laj [ Feb 17th, '14, 12:17 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sumps, to inground or not to inground? |
PS i didnt bother with cage or frame after backfill and no issues. I filled the tank THEN did backfill so water volume held it out. |
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| Author: | Stuart Chignell [ Feb 17th, '14, 12:44 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sumps, to inground or not to inground? |
rjinAZ wrote: Thanks Stuart. So running with that line of thinking my initial plan of plumbing my drain lines through the plastic would limit my adjustability (sump). So I would assume that having my drain pipes emptying over the side will give me more room to tune later if necessary. Depends. Don't penetrate a membrane you don't have to but if you think you might need to do it while under constrcution not later. Draw a few sketches and post them so we can offer specific advice. |
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| Author: | rjinAZ [ Feb 19th, '14, 01:59 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sumps, to inground or not to inground? |
heres my rough in. beds are about the height i want. i need to of course make the footing more secure and level but heres where im at so far. 
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