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dead fish cycling ?
http://byap.backyardmagazines.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=18944		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  sweet potatoes [ Oct 7th, '13, 22:29 ]
Post subject:  dead fish cycling ?
wondering about the dried fish used for cooking
the little ones I use to make a quick fish stock , haven't noticed a salt issue with them
Could they be used for a cycling

the rehydrated fish/water has not caused a problem with the plants in the soil containers

so could I use this in my gravel bed or tank

I have started with the seaweed method
but after reading on the forum thought about adding fish
my plants are doing fine, but i understand from this discussion group
I am currently a hydroponics gardener until my cycle is complete (which may never happen with seaweed)

I also plan on using worm tea for plant growth
Author:  Charlie [ Oct 8th, '13, 05:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: dead fish cycling ?
It's possible the fish powder could provide an ammonia source, that's basically what Charlie carp is - powdered fish. Put some in a bucket of water and test over a few days.

Seaweed extract doesn't have any ammonia in it but its good for a supplement.
Author:  jono81 [ Oct 8th, '13, 17:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: dead fish cycling ?
By all means try it and let us know how you go

If it doesn't provide enough ammonia, you could supplement it by burying a handful of commercial fish feed deep into your growbed (seeing you'll need to buy some anyway to feed your fish)
Author:  jono81 [ Oct 8th, '13, 17:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: dead fish cycling ?
How long have you been cycling so far?
Do you have a freshwater test kit? If so, test for ammonia and don't add any fish until you're ammonia is zero (completed cycling)
Author:  sweet potatoes [ Oct 9th, '13, 02:45 ]
Post subject:  Re: dead fish cycling ?
sept 30 - seaweed start of cycle ph 7.5 chorine 0 ammonia 0
oct. 2 -planted
oct. 4 -8 feeder goldfish (after reading comments about seaweed cycling) in a 34 gallon tank
oct.5. 2 dead fish (worried that the current might be too strong pump for 300 gph , repositioned pump and water return pipe
oct. 6 2 fish dead trapped in pumps mesh bag knot did not hold. their little fins are smaller than the slots on the pump
oct.. 7 2more dead cable tied the mesh bag shut (watched the remaining 2 fish swim about pump with out distress)
oct. 8 still alive ph has risen to 8 ammonia is between the .25 and .5 color mark on chart

After the Nemo incident (Stay away from the pump) , decided cycling with fish is tooo dramatic, although we didn't have any problems in with a pond, but used larger fish. (pond is not at current location)

Oct 8. to lower the ph I am filtering my water into the grow beds through peat moss (it is in a sieve so it won't be permanent decaying matter) read to do this on a goldfish site.( Or to use driftwood ) only an hour has passed and no change .

the goldfish that moved on are now blessing an eggplant with their nutrients

putting dried fish in a separate container with grow stones and with water from the tank to start a culture, does the water need to circulate , is a thin layer better than a thick layer, ...then I could mix them into my existing bed later and spare the fish. hmmmm
Author:  sweet potatoes [ Oct 12th, '13, 00:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: dead fish cycling ?
the 2 goldfish are getting bigger, wondering if I should of checked the ph of the water from the pet shop.
ph still 8 , highest reading on color chart, but a lighter blue than before.
ammonia steadily decreasing between .25 and zero
added alaea sea salt 1/2 tbsp. to the fish tank
was only rinsing the fish and clay pebbles onto the grow bed once a day.
now I have placed the a knee high pantyhose sock filled with peat and one with a few clay pebbles and the hydrated dried fish. placed the remainder of the clay pebbles onto the grow bed.

I have noticed that my transplanted lettuce seedling are not doing as well as the seeds sprinkled on top of the grow bed, although they had a 2 week start. but they were started with water only.
the second bed where the seedlings were started with seaweed extract chard broccoli cauliflower, turnip, squash , which were one week at transplanting have had the most growth.
(the stems are thicker than the ones left in the coconut medium being fed with water poured off from the fish tank. (comparing the growth rate)

the lettuce may have been hindered by the 90*f heat, it has finally cooled a bit

added a drop of worm tea today
Author:  sweet potatoes [ Oct 21st, '13, 23:00 ]
Post subject:  Re: dead fish cycling ?
no more live fish
they may have been feeding on the hydrated dried fish (over eating may have been a factor)
the ph remained above 8 but did decrease about .4 ( used peat moss)
the ammonia levels have stayed around .25 or lower

The plant growth appears stalled, I assume it is do to the high ph and the plants cannot absorb the seaweed and worm tea extract.
so I added 2 cups white vinegar and the ph has dropped to a happy plant level
hoping to see some growth soon

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Author:  sweet potatoes [ Oct 23rd, '13, 22:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: dead fish cycling ?
ph went back up
added 2 more cups white vinegar

in the morning ph back up

read on another thread that vinegar has the same effect as citric acid, kills the bacteria
is this so , will my cycling take longer now

on the florida extension center pages, discussing the high ph water due to carbonates, and how it affects pesticide , fertilizer, and plant growth
it is suggested to use nitric, sulfuric, or phosphoric acid
are these safe for ap

the ammonia level has not gone up, so I sprinkled in some fish feed
thinking about replacing the hydrated dried fish, no noticeable smell in grow beds, but when I sniff over the fish tank it smells a bit fishy (stronger than I would like) and I do not want it to get noticed

(after an incident from involving a dead possum in the yard, which attracted turkey vultures, who congregated on top of the pool enclosure to eat, collapsed the screening and fell into the pool carrion and all.
this part was not witnessed as we were not home at the time, but was evident by the number of birds drying their wings on the roof of the house and adjacent houses, as one returned to open the doors to the bird cage and ask the 8 vultures to leave,while listening to the roar of laughter from the vultures outside of the enclosure)
sorry , we didn't take any pictures ,just went straight to clean mode

if anyone can control their giggling long enough to answer my questions on vinegar and high ph
it would be appreciated

can I use pool acid?
Author:  sweet potatoes [ Oct 24th, '13, 00:11 ]
Post subject:  Re: dead fish cycling ?
still looking for backyard solutions to the ph issue
read that pine needles are good for the soil

thoughts?
Author:  sweet potatoes [ Oct 30th, '13, 05:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: dead fish cycling ?
dried fish were placed in grow bed , close to plants, no signs of ammonia rising
ph above 8
ammonia 0
nitrates 0


added muriatic acid (to tap water that went through 2 filtering cartridges before adding to tank)
immediate reading ph 5
expecting it to rise after 2 days

I have white spots on my hydroton are they mineral deposits from the water?

some of the tips of the leaves of the broccoli is shriveling, is this due to temperature fluctuations, 90 to 50 * f in a couple of days and then back to 87*F today

the lettuce started to grow in the cool weather, but now I fear it may decline again

stopped by the pet store to get test solution for ph above 8, instead of using strips
was told not to be to upset over the feeder fish , they are not expected to live long

have I cycled
waiting for ph to adjust before getting quality fish

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Author:  sweet potatoes [ Oct 30th, '13, 22:36 ]
Post subject:  Re: dead fish cycling ?
the ph went back up to 8 this morning
the muriatic acid solution that had been added was 1 tbsp. tank level about 28 gallons

so I added 3 tbsp. and another half gallon of fresh water

noticed leaves turning yellow quickly, must of shocked them
too acidic ph really low now
added half gallon of fresh water to each grow bed

trying to find a balance
how much muriatic acid should I put in a 5 gallon bucket to use for topping off , to bring about stabilized ph of 6.5
Author:  Ronmaggi [ Oct 31st, '13, 00:46 ]
Post subject:  Re: dead fish cycling ?
The trick is finding out how much you need. It really depends on how much calcium or other alkaline buffers are in your water. People with substantial buffers usually keep a topup tank at the ready. It usually takes a couple of days to stabilize the water. Basically you keep adding a measured amount of HCL, aka muriatic acid, every time the ph jumps back up, once it stops jumping up you add up all the acid you added to the system. That gives you about how much it takes for you. The important things to remember is that you want to adjust your system water gradually. Your top up water can be abused all you want, but you need to be gentle to your system. Otherwise your fish will die and your bacteria colony will collapse.
Author:  sweet potatoes [ Nov 1st, '13, 21:48 ]
Post subject:  Re: dead fish cycling ?
the ammonia level is rising between zero and .25
I can smell fish from the grow bed
could the acid have sped up decomposing of the dried fish
still no nitrates
ph 7.5
Author:  sweet potatoes [ Nov 12th, '13, 00:19 ]
Post subject:  Re: dead fish cycling ?
last week added a few more dried fish into the grow beds, although ammonia was low and nitrates zero
figured I could wait a bit longer before adding live fish, so I raised the ammonia level with dead fish rather than the addition of live to check the nitrate fluxuations
as I had feared that I may have slowed down my cycling with the strong acidic water that took a few plants
grow beds are low in plants now, have been using it to root plant cuttings
broccoli survived and so did some of the chard without strong yellowing
squash and kale yellowed , and have yet to catch up with the ones in the wicking bed

ammonia up
have nitrates
ph good

adding a capful of maxicrop with iron and seeds to the growbed today

sweet potato leaves have done well in ap bed and wick bed, very tolerant (and I do find them a nice addition to my salads)

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kale nov 11.jpg
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Author:  sweet potatoes [ Nov 12th, '13, 00:33 ]
Post subject:  Re: dead fish cycling ?
in case anyone was wondering
I get the dried fish from the Hispanic section of the store , they are in the bags by the dried chilies and other herbs

I add this amount (the ones next to the pen to the grows beds)

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