Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Since my last post in this forum, I have managed to secure a local private buyer of my basil and they in turn sell it at an uncertified farmer's market under the freeway in Sacramento. The market is not a certified organic market, but business is good. If I could grow it faster i would sell more. So I figured why bother with the organic certification at this point?

The dillemma is the Tilapia. Some of you may remember I found a local Asian gentleman who bought a batch of tilapia for a community dinner event he was hosting. I provided 20 fish on one condition: that he solicit honest feedback from his community on quality of fish. He supplemented some fresh tilapia and bluegill from the local grocery store and presented the store bought fish alongside of my tilapia, then solicted thier opinion of which flavor they preferred. The fish I provided were unanimously favored for taste. However, the store bought fish were much bigger on average (a huge plus to the critics) and the bluegill much less boney.
So as it turns out, the Tilapia, although very good tasting, are much bonier than Bluegill, which is the comparable species in this test.

Hmmmmm.... what to do?

I can increase the size of my fish by increasing three main factors:

1) DO needs to come up
2) Feed rate needs to come up substantially
3) Need more grow beds...... more basil.

But as Mean Coyote has found out personally, no government agency is budging on the permitting of tilapia.

I could run this operation as is, but if I go any bigger, I am afraid I am flirting with disaster. So....switch to Bluegill?

For the record, I have not had success breeding Bluegill. And there is zero info on rasing Bluegill in tank/recirculating culture.

Time for a cost-benefit analysis! Here are some questions that occur to me that need answers. There are probably lots more, but this is a start.

Let's assume that to increase production (no matter what species you use), that the infrastructure (growbed) costs are the same. Let's also assume that the market for fresh tilapia or fresh bluegill is the same.

- Is it cost-effective to just buy bluegill fingerlings? If you did not have to keep up spawning tanks, could you use that space more effectively. Are bluegill fingerlings readily available?

- What are the penalties if you are caught with tilapia? Are you willing to pay that price (and/or time?)? If you are caught with them, I would bet you will never be able to legally own them after that.

- What about using ornamental fish for your poo? Water gardens are quite popular here, what about there? Koi and goldfish breed quite readily, and some of the koi bring handsome prices. (Sarasa comet goldfishes are my personal favorite.) Also for the record, I have had my goldfish at 82F, and they were just fine.

- Where is the better profit to be had? In the basil or the fish? Last I looked in the grocery, basil was going for about $60/pound. Does the farmers' market close in the winter? Where would you sell your basil then?

- Do you have separate-able systems such that you could run tilapia and bluegill for a while as a parallel test? Or could you eat up your current tilapia except for breeding stock, and switch to doing a bluegill trial? Maybe just hold the tilapia breeders aside for a while? First see if they grow out OK for you, and then decide if breeding them is worth it.

- To sell fish/meats above board, I think you need additional certification. Veggies/basil or non-prepared foods require less certification. How much hassle is it to research/obtain that certification?

Janet, I am heading out to lunch, I love your reply...I want to answer in detail....be back in a few.

I am looking forward to the answer. Janet, you are good at asking questions.

Michael,
I have been having fairly good success breeding the blue gil in my system, It has actually been with out any additional effort. I have separated the fry and they seem to be doing well. If it was not for the largemouth bass, I would literally have thousands of them. Blue Gill are normally said to "overpopulate" a pond quickly, if there are no predators in there. In the recirc. system this is not a a bad thing, if you know it and can prepare/handle it.

As for the Tilapia, I am very displeased with the way our governments see and handle things. However, you don't want to be looking over your shoulder... wondering how long before your work will be publicly displayed as "evil" for competing with the Chinese.

I love to eat fish, and that is one of the reasons this whole thing started for me, this is why I did not go for Koi or other ornamental. The more I see how much people are willing to pay for "pretty fish", the more I am looking for the right place to work them into my system.

One other thought for you. I recently ran across someone who had been raising Pacu. My knowledge of them is limited, however, it appears that the south american and especially Brazilian market loves them. The people I know that raise them said that they have been quite hardy and very fast growing. In fact they re-iterated this point several times. These can also be sold as ornamentals, most Wal-Marts carry them I am told. They only reason these people were not raising them now was due to a power outage that caused a complete loss. They said their supply was never able to fill their demand.

Is there no market there for Catfish? They grow so fast and are so easy to raise. They have proved in my system to be the hardiest. Breeding is not as easy though, you would probably need to find a fingerling source.

I am looking forward to see how you proceed.
I my opinion, if you are serious about this business (and from reading all your posts, it appears you are), don't play with the law, their jerks and don't care about reality, never-the-less, they carry the badge and they can do as they like. Take a chance go for the license, if they say no, move on to a different fish.

Mathew

That assumption is accurate.



Fingerlings are readily available for now. The farm is for sale at the moment and will succumb to residential development when the economy picks back up.



Ultimately, I would prefer to avoid getting tagged as outlaw



I've kept Koi and they did fine, but ultimately could not breed them. It is a consideration for sure. I need to know what stocking densities are possible with Koi.



The basil by far is more profitable when factoring in growth time and maintenence. However, it would be nice to have a prolific supply of fish to move as well. The market goes in the winter also. Crops shift, basil I'm sure is not available then, so I may be better off then.



Yes I do, I will not have to relocate my broodstock but rather clear out my rearing tank and put 100 bluegill fingerlings in there.



I can grow 100 bluegill fingerlings in my rearing tankor I can get a bluegill broodstock right off the bat and see what can be produced. I'm leaning toward the broodstock.



That is a good point. However, I have the underground market for the fish at hand, so if I am at least species legitimate it may not be as big of a deal? I don't think I would want to hassle with FDA certification.

Matthew, thank you. I have rasied Pacu as an aquarist and you are correct they are hardy and fast growing. That is also a very good option as I believe the hispanic population and culture here in California could also appreciate this species. Hmmmm......

Michael,
Quick question, what is the worst that could happen if you apply for a license? Is there no room made for Tilapia at all? Here in TX, they have strange laws as well, for instance, the Red Claw can be sold on ice with no license necesary. Any other way requires all sorts of jumping through hoops.

Oh it's a long strung out scenario here in California, Mathew. In a nutshell, the California Aquaculture Association is headquartered in Niland, CA...the tilapia capitol of the Western United States. Niland is in Southern California and live tilapia are trucked daily to Northern California for market. The California Depratment of Fish and Game has declared (like many states) Tilapia to be a noxious fish, but because Niland has several Tilapia fisheries and a lobbying presence in the California Aquaculture Industry, the CDFG shook hands and made an exception for them. Basically Tilapia are illegal above the Tehatchapi Mountain Range....and if you ever bring the issue up with CDFG (which I did many moons ago) they get real bristly and defensive.

It's a non-option.

I personally wouldn't want to get on the wrong side of the CDFG, or the aquaculture coordinator. IF you have another species that is as viable, I would at least do a test run. Or change gears altogether and go to either crays or ornamentals.

I'm interested in seeing your results, Michael -- as I may be in your shoes in a few years -- possibly months.
I've heard that bluegill breed readily but do not get as big as tilapia, are not as tollerant to low oxygen and can't survive on algae alone.

I'm told that Koi breed readily and there is a ridiculous market for Koi. All my Koi died in the first month so I'm no expert.

Pacu are an intruiging possibility. There are two varieties of Pacu raised in the US. Red-bellied and Black. The Black version macropomum ... gets much larger -- up to 70 kg. the red version (what I bought at Walmart) gets up to 30 kg. Pacu are raised commercially in South America, so most of the rearing information is in Spanish. It is complexified by the fact that each country has different names -- and calls a completely different species of fish "pacu" for the two varieties of fish. Brazil, Columbia, and Peru seem to be the largest producers (and consumers) of Pacu. If my memory serves me right, the names I found were "Tambaqui", "Gamatama", and "paco".
The situation is further complexified by the fact that there seem to be several different latin names used for the same fish. Colossoma macropomum Colossoma brachypomum, Piaractus sp. etc.

Here's an excerpt fom the Wiki "Pacu are considered ideal for their tolerance of the low-oxygen water in farm ponds. They also don't require a lot of expensive protein in their diet, and can be raised year-round in warm or temperature-controlled environments.[39]

Research shows that the "flavor of (farmed) pacu is comparable to that of hybrid striped bass, tilapia, and rainbow trout, but superior to catfish."[40] In South America, pacu are prized for their sweet, mild flavor."

All my research showed that the only sucessful breeding of Pacu (either color) has been with hormone injections -- either pituitary extract or HGH??....

I'm typing this from work from memory so there may be some inaccuracies. I can dig up the pdf's and other papers I found if that would be helpful.

So far my 4 Pacu are prospering -- having grown to over 6" in a few months -- with very irregular feeding and occasional neglect.

i have read these guys have raised bluegill in tanks,
http://kens-fishfarm.com/fish.asp

Pacu seems intersting. im gonna look into them more

I too would love more info on the pacu. Until recently I had focused solely on crays, but finfish is another aspect I'm now looking into.

Michael,
thanks for the explanation, sorry to hear it, though I certainly understand.

As for the Pacu - Emsjoflo, if you have good info. I would like to see/hear about it. I don't have quite the issue here with Tilapia that Michael does, however, I have thought for some time that I would like to have a fish that is not so common. The people I know that were raising them said they received a good price for them, way more than for tilapia. I will check back with them to find out what they were doing about breeding.

Mike, you do have some choices, don't you!

you already have an existing buyer for the "underground" tilapia

However, a regulatory body tracing fish's source would then also find you un licenced to sell fish meat.

Might help with staying under the radar by swithcing to blue-gill?

I know that in Oz the penalty for tilapia is around 10K Basil would haver to be bloody profitable to recover that!

Steve