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Another South African Commercial System.
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Author:  synaptoman [ Jun 11th, '08, 21:01 ]
Post subject:  Another South African Commercial System.
With my other commercial aquaponic site progressing well and probably about 3 weeks from being completed, I thought I'd introduce you to my next project. I have been commissioned to design and build another aquaponic system way off of the beaten track in Gouna just outside Knysna, South Africa.

At this particular site some preparatory work has been done and I have been hired to take the project further. Here are some facts;

* The site is nice and level.
* To get there is a shocking 20km gravel road. (its probably only 10k's)
* The field in which we are building is grassed and the soil is clay.
* There is no electricity on site for construction or running the system.
* I will use a generator during the construction phase.
* The client has also ordered 2 x 600W Wind Turbines from me, one of which is going to this site (I think)
* The client has ordered 4 x 7m diameter (1.2m high) mesh ponds (not from me).
* The total water (excluding sump) is a massive 184 000 L.
* No thought has been given to a sump, and it will probably have to be outside.
* The client has ordered 2 x 30m greenhouse tunnels from me.
* Each tunnel will hold 2 ponds plus growbeds
* They want to grow strawberries.
* The fish will be Tilapia.
* They haven't given much thought to pumping water around as according to them, "Tilapia don't need much aeration." ??????? whatever that means.
* No filtration has been considered.

Attached is a picture of the site on Day #1. You can see the outline of two ponds.

This is really a blank slate, so please consider this a BYAP project and feel free to contribute with ideas, criticism, ridicule (or beers). All ideas will be communicated to the client.

Considering all of the above, how would YOU proceed??? Yes, and once again baboons are a real problem here.

Let's see if we can jointly build a viable commercial aquaponic site over the Internet by remote control.

Attachments:
day1gouna.JPG
day1gouna.JPG [ 159.43 KiB | Viewed 14150 times ]
Author:  Outbackozzie [ Jun 11th, '08, 21:11 ]
Post subject:  Re: Another South African Commercial System.
Does the client really know what they are getting into?
Author:  Dave Donley [ Jun 11th, '08, 21:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: Another South African Commercial System.
They should grow Moringa

(Beat Chappo to it!)

184,000 L to start an AP system sounds crazy. Maybe they should start with a much smaller system first?!? Do they have any experience farming fish or vegetables?
Author:  gnash06 [ Jun 11th, '08, 21:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: Another South African Commercial System.
Big task Synapto, will be hard without elect but i'm sure it can be done.

Will the turbine (if it's for here) give enough power to run a pump and aerator, can't see a way to do it without a pump of sorts even if it was not on level ground???.
Author:  Dave Donley [ Jun 11th, '08, 21:32 ]
Post subject:  Re: Another South African Commercial System.
If this is intended to be commercial, do they have a guaranteed market for their products?
Author:  tamo42 [ Jun 11th, '08, 23:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: Another South African Commercial System.
2 things come immediately to mind.

1, strawberries are usually done vertically. Are there any considerations on the client's side that would affect such a design?

2, with no electricity service, will a wind turbine be enough? Is this a high wind area that will support such a turbine? Would it be cheaper to get service delivered over the 10-20km road (my guess is probably so)?
Author:  Chappo [ Jun 11th, '08, 23:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: Another South African Commercial System.
Absolutely no reason for strawberries to be done vertically .( pumping against gravity costs money)
Yes Tilapia will live in very low oxygen water ,, but growth rate suffers.
No electricity,,,,that is BAD,..... any working animals there ,, buffalo ..... OX , for manual pump?
What's the supply water PH ,, strawberries generally prefer low ( 6 - 6.5)
Strawberries also prefer their root zone to be coolish ,, what temp is supply water?

To be honest mate ,,,I think they are asking for a whole lot of heart-ache , but hey it's their money.
Author:  synaptoman [ Jun 11th, '08, 23:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: Another South African Commercial System.
Quote:
Does the client really know what they are getting into?


No

Quote:
184,000 L to start an AP system sounds crazy. Maybe they should start with a much smaller system first?!? Do they have any experience farming fish or vegetables?


My sentiments exactly, but like I said, this is how I have inherited the project. The other "consultant" had some experience in farming Tilapia. Ponds are on there way, my job is to install them.

Quote:
Will the turbine (if it's for here) give enough power to run a pump and aerator


They are also installing quite a large solar system which I am told will be ready by the time I need power for the pump.

Quote:
If this is intended to be commercial, do they have a guaranteed market for their products?


Anything we can grow, we can sell. The local food market is going crazy.

Quote:
strawberries are usually done vertically


I like vertical. I've just got to fine-tune my strawberry curtains and then we'll be away. Why strawberries? I don't know, probably just decided on a whim over a few beers with some mates.

Quote:
with no electricity service


There is electricity on the farm. he just doesn't want to gve ME any for the project. I don't think they appreciate what pumping is needed to push 184000 L of water around. If I had a choice in this I'd only use a 1/4 of the water volume. Imagine the gravel calculation !!

They want to use the ponds as follows;

1. Mixed sex brood stock tank (hatchery)
2. Fingerlings before sexing.
3. Male growout.
4. Female growout.

Please note that none of the design work so far has come from me. I inherited this project when the client started having doubts about the design.

:x
Author:  Chappo [ Jun 11th, '08, 23:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: Another South African Commercial System.
Mate you simply DO NOT bother growing females ,, waste of time and money .Other than for breeding they are a complete waste of time ( Geeze I love to be able to say that without upsetting human females)
try to keep the buyers expectations within line with what is possible ,, you don't want their dreams becoming YOUR nightmare.
Author:  RupertofOZ [ Jun 11th, '08, 23:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: Another South African Commercial System.
Quote:
They want to use the ponds as follows;

1. Mixed sex brood stock tank (hatchery)
2. Fingerlings before sexing.
3. Male growout.
4. Female growout.


So the obvious next question is.... do they have any aquaculture experience?

Was the original concept/design/quotation that you inherited supposed to be an aquaponics system... or just an aquaculture venture?
Author:  Chappo [ Jun 11th, '08, 23:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: Another South African Commercial System.
If it included female grow out ,, iut was a stupid idea whether aquaculture or Aquaponics.
With Tilapia ,, kill all females ASAP ,, unless needed for breeding ,, no joke here ,, I know my Tilapia.
Author:  RupertofOZ [ Jun 11th, '08, 23:48 ]
Post subject:  Re: Another South African Commercial System.
In a food hungry country Chappo.... even female Tilapia will have a market value that (given the nature of Tilapia), will probably make it more efficient to grow them out rather than trying to sex them and eliminate them....

Indeed Synapto.... a question to ask the client may be.... why do you intend to divide them into seperate grow out facilities?

And just how do they intend to do it anyway?.... do they know how to sex a Tilapia?

And just how often will they have to do so... and how long will it take them to net that amount of fish stock in that amount of water... just to sex them....

Do they realise the time committment this operation will require?

Perhaps they'd be better either starting up as an aquaculture venture and staying that way....

Or adding AP components over time as their expertise grows....

Or just using the water to grow produce.....

Personally.... can't see how you're going to do it with sump tanks.... and have doubts that solar and wind can supply enough power to operate the number or size of the pumps required.....

Build them a single system... and tell them they can expand it later...
Author:  Chappo [ Jun 12th, '08, 00:03 ]
Post subject:  Re: Another South African Commercial System.
Rupert , mate , buddy ,, YOU know about SP , AP , and a lot of things I do not . I know Tilapia ,, females absolutely , positively need to be removed ,, wasted food, economics.
Hormone food to keep the babies MALE is part of the way that these fish can be supplied as such a cheap protein source.
For sure you can sell the females ,, but they cost you a LOT more than their sell price.

Rupert , once again I apologise ,, but mate , I've grown and marketed ( on my Thai farm) over 70,000 kilo of Tilapia , grown and marketed in a poor country .....,
The females and breeding MUST be stopped in order to allow economical production of this species. Simple fact.
Author:  RupertofOZ [ Jun 12th, '08, 00:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Another South African Commercial System.
Don't doubt your knowledge Chappo...

Asking the question to Synapto.... the client seems to be wanting to breed... that suggests that they'll have to stock both sexs....

When they sex and seperate will determine the economics... unless they abandon the breeding operation and just source and growout all males....

If not then their options are...

Grow out the females to a "point" in time and sell them for some return...

Dump and bury them.....

Cull and process them into fish feed for the males.... whatever...

Point I'm trying to make is that Synapto's client need to look at the time, effort and economics of ALL aspects of what they're intending to do....

And yep, maybe female Tilapia don't have much/any value in your eyes... but in a food hungry country, maybe that's different...

The client needs to determine the economics for their situation.... and I suspect that they either haven't really thought it through....

Or just don't have the knowledge to have even considered the myriad of aspects and economics of their intentions....
Author:  Dave Donley [ Jun 12th, '08, 00:32 ]
Post subject:  Re: Another South African Commercial System.
By my calculations they should plan on housing 368,000L of gravel in their greenhouse.

They should decide whether they want to grow mainly vegetables/strawberries or mainly fish. Otherwise they might get confused about whether they are building an AP operation or an aquaculture operation. The real estate for the plants of an AP system will be much greater than the real estate needed for strictly aquaculture system. Sounds like the plans up to now haven't stressed the plants as the center of the business.
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