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| Bother http://byap.backyardmagazines.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=21952 |
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| Author: | Stuart Chignell [ Jun 5th, '14, 14:28 ] |
| Post subject: | Bother |
Well it would seem that I've failed again to get a commercial operation off the ground. Just before Christmas I was made an offer that included financing and a customer/market for a project that had a aquaponic component. Well it seems that the wheels have fallen off and the promised finance won't be forthcoming. So its back to the drawing board. I was feeling pretty gutted this morning but it was really confirmation of what I had suspected for some months. Not so despondent now but I have know idea what my next move is. |
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| Author: | Ronmaggi [ Jun 5th, '14, 14:36 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bother |
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| Author: | Colum Black-Byron [ Jun 5th, '14, 14:41 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bother |
| Sorry to hear about it. Financers with cold feet? Can you start up something smaller, and grow it from there? |
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| Author: | Stuart Chignell [ Jun 5th, '14, 14:53 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bother |
That is the option I wanted to avoid. Many of the other small operations have suffered from a complete lack of scale. For the last few years I've been presenting to numerous people showing that scale makes operations profitable. For the same reasons that scale makes hydroponics and aquaculture profitable so to does aquaponics need scale to maintain margins and to pay for all costs including wages and depreciation. I've presented numerous options of different scale and what I've shown is that smaller operations can only be successful if they are subsidised by other activities. Other activities can be as simple as direct marketing your produce where it is your sale of produce directly to customers be they large or small that subsidies the production of said produce. You can also value add, teach classes, take on interns, etc. I want to run a professional operation but if I can't get the financing I can't do it. A small operation means my wife will have to support our family and I'll have to go without wages for several years before there is even a hope of drawing a wage let alone a significant profit. I've even managed to secure some pretty significant government support but it is in the form of a reimbursement so I have to spend the cash first. I can use the same deal to start small and the government support will help but the reimbursement can be applied just as easily to a $5,000,000 project as to a $50,000 project. Obviously the returns on the 5mil wil be bigger but they will also be better because of the economies of scale. |
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| Author: | Tallman [ Jun 5th, '14, 15:52 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bother |
| hmm bugger. Interesting though. Do you know why it fell through? Does the plan stack up when put through the hurdles of the venture capital wringer? I'm not saying you are pitching to VC's, just wondering if potential investors/financiers get advice on discount rates and expected return etc from people who just apply generic risk/return models and then advise against the deal. Sounds like it's tough to find a financier who really understands your pitch. But I sure hope you find one mate. |
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| Author: | Stuart Chignell [ Jun 5th, '14, 16:11 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bother |
No idea why things fell through. My bit (5mil) was part of a 400mil development. At firsts I thought I wasn't getting any attention because I was a relatively minor player but now it seems like the whole project has gone down the tube. |
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| Author: | Sleepe [ Jun 5th, '14, 16:29 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bother |
You are very polite when you are pissed off Stuart.  Sometimes it is difficult to understand what the salable item is in Aquaponics (with the C word). Fish or vegies? If its fish they will tend to *frack* you on Aquaculture; if its vegies they will look at Hydroponics. Both have a track record. |
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| Author: | Stuart Chignell [ Jun 5th, '14, 16:49 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bother |
That is the rednose. The track record. I don't talk about aquaponics much with my professional hat on because I emphasise that the technology is merely the integration of aquaculture and hydroponics and that the methods that we use to achieve this are just matters of engineering using well established principles and methods. There is money out there but trying to net it from my small ladder is tricky. Sooner or later I will land the funds but I just don't know what I am meant to do to that point at the moment. If I have to start small so be it but every dollar and hour I spend building and expanding a small system will only pay me back any money either after it grows in scale to be of a reasonable size (~50+t of fish and ~350+t of veg) or gets swallowed by a bigger investor impressed enough by me, my team or the small system  The start small and grow method is the easiest method by which to get started but harder to pull off because people often run out of capital or energy. Starting bigger is harder to get started but much easier to make profitable and still have energy left over to expand and push a company forward. |
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| Author: | blind freddie [ Jun 5th, '14, 17:03 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bother |
Bugger Stu. sorry to hear it mate With a bit of luck a better opportunity will come along before too long, good luck. |
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| Author: | Sleepe [ Jun 5th, '14, 17:23 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bother |
Got to put a bit of a spin on it. I am going to set up an Commercial Hydroponics system that is better than organic (Sorry Ryan )OR I am going to set up an Aquaculture operation that has minimum impact on the environment (Not a Favourite ATM but big eared *sigh* boy is having a hard time and your State Gov't isn't much better). You could be the photo or interview champion that they need (not that I would appreciate that). Sometimes I think you assume that people understand what you are saying; take a step back and assume they know nothing. Only imho after a few beers. 
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| Author: | Stuart Chignell [ Jun 5th, '14, 17:30 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bother |
What I say on here is very different from what I say out there. That is the manner and mode of expression rather than the content. Actually some of the content as well. For example using the words "environment" and "sustainable" have been banned from all presentations to government and investors for some time. Just doesn't have any currency. I'm open to suggestions. |
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| Author: | blind freddie [ Jun 5th, '14, 17:37 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bother |
Brown paper bag in the right back pocket perhaps, seems to be the all the rage these days particularly with officials from our Gumbyment... |
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| Author: | Stuart Chignell [ Jun 5th, '14, 17:44 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bother |
Sleepe wrote: You could be the photo or interview champion that they need (not that I would appreciate that). What do you mean?  
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| Author: | coachchris [ Jun 5th, '14, 18:34 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bother |
Sorry to hear Stu. What scale would you build if the financing held up? |
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| Author: | Stuart Chignell [ Jun 5th, '14, 18:58 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bother |
The plan I presented was for 200t of fish pa and 1ha of hydro. Within reason I will build what I am asked to but too small and it will never pay for itself and too large too soon has its own risks. |
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