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Commercial viability of aquaponics
http://byap.backyardmagazines.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1849		 Page 1 of 5
Author:  Handyandy [ Jul 27th, '07, 08:38 ]
Post subject: 
Hi All,

I am new to the forum, so forgive any ignorance.

I am doing some research into commercial aquaponics and have some info on organic cert. from an Aussi view point. It seems what is needed to seven consider the cert. process is a certified fish feed, or something from "live" sources, like woms, duck weed etc...

On another point, I am interested in commercial systems and have seen this site in Australia called IAS (Intergated Aquaponic Solutions). The guy (Wilson Lennard) says he does consulting on commercial systems, and that he has one (there are pic's too). The web site is www.aquaponic.com.au.

Has nayone heard of this guy and do you know anything about him? Any info would be appreciated.

Handyandy
Author:  RupertofOZ [ Jul 27th, '07, 09:47 ]
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Depends how much your planning to spend Handyandy.....

You wont get much change out of $30-$50,000 (min) for any aquaponic setup we've seen advertised.....including Lennards.

Would suspect that a truely viable commercial AP system would probably cost closer to $100,000 to setup from scratch.....

And if you look at operations like "Tailormade" and "Barramundi Blue" then you're talking $1-$2 million plus......

Most of the commercial guys don't really want to sell "kits" as such.... they will supply components and certainly "expertise"......but at a cost .....

And you can be sure that any "consulting" will be at a significant cost.

Edited:

And that's assuming you've actually got the land of course... and probably doesn't include buildings, power, water, on-going costs etc....
Author:  Handyandy [ Jul 27th, '07, 12:22 ]
Post subject:  Re: organic certification
Hi RupertofOZ,

Thanks for the info. How do you know that Lennard charges that much, have you spoken to him? If yes, does he seem to know anything?

You seem pretty cynical towards "consultants" and their "experience" (I too am pretty careful in this sense). Have you had any bad experiences with this guy, or is it general cynicism?

Thanks again,

handyandy
Author:  RupertofOZ [ Jul 27th, '07, 12:51 ]
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Quote:
You seem pretty cynical towards "consultants" and their "experience" (I too am pretty careful in this sense). Have you had any bad experiences with this guy, or is it general cynicism?


Nothing personal toward Wilson at all, or anyone else....

Certainly a degree of general cynicism..... don't want aquaponics to go the way of aquaculture, olive tree farms, plantation timber, agapantures (sp?) etc..... lots a of get rich quick merchants offering bad advise and/or product....

Seems like any new and good idea often ends up with a bunch of people milking it to death and presenting as experts and consultants while in reality often having little or no practical experience..... the sharks muddy the water to hide themselves and unfortunatelty prevent anybody else from seeing things clealy as well.

I have no problem recognising that Wilson Lennard was one of the few people in the recent past who has actually done significant research and trials into the use of aquaponics as a growing system.

Read through the forum.... you'll find many discussions regarding this topic and references to various "commercial" proposals.
Author:  RupertofOZ [ Jul 27th, '07, 12:59 ]
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Quote:
How do you know that Lennard charges that much, have you spoken to him? If yes, does he seem to know anything?


Handyandy, have no firm figures relating to any of Lennards specific proposals or products.

The figures I gave are based on the few proposed "commercial" aquaponics kits that have been floated and the projected size of operation required to make them viable... often referenced back to Lennards original research and quoted by himself in his role as consultant to various "commercial" proposals. "Ecoplan" was one that came to mind...

That figure is usally quoted as a minimum area of 90sqmtr of growing area.....

The figures for the scale of operations of Tailormade and Barramundi Blue are public record...

Commercial hydroponics operations are usually based around production of a minimum capacity of 120-150,000 lettuce annually or about 80,000kg of tomatoes annually
Author:  Handyandy [ Jul 27th, '07, 13:02 ]
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I guess it all depends on how much you want to make from it! Commercial viability can be achieved by making 1 buck a year!

Thanks for the info.
Author:  MCPHRO [ Jul 27th, '07, 14:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: Commercial viability of aquaponics
sorry, havent read all of this discussion, but I wonder if its viability (Aquaponics) is more based around the family home and permaculture.

Ive seen news articles talking about Massive properties in a building where the top level is chickens, next level pigs, then the cows, fish and hydroponics farm all feeding into one another so there is no waste. the very bottom level of the whole facility was basically an abatoir to take care of all the produce...

I think Aquaponics shouldnt be look at in isolation, rather with permaculture in mind...

This way: Fish production, Veggie production, water savings, energy savings, chicken production, worm production, compost and manure all in one huge energy cycle feeding in on itself...

Anyone ever done the concept map :shock:

As for the commerial viability... FISH --> You need a licence, veggies at least are year round.... getting cost of what you sell - what it costs to to grow would be a challenge...


:rr:
Author:  Jaymie [ Jul 27th, '07, 14:33 ]
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off you go Roy ;)
Author:  MCPHRO [ Jul 27th, '07, 14:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: Commercial viability of aquaponics
yea.. much like Jamies back yard :wink:
Author:  RupertofOZ [ Jul 27th, '07, 14:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: Commercial viability of aquaponics
Quote:
Anyone ever done the concept map


Yep .... here.... http://www.i-sis.org.uk/DreamFarm2.php

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Author:  emsjoflo [ Jul 28th, '07, 00:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: Commercial viability of aquaponics
Rup:

I wonder what the cost of setting up a system like your map would be. Perhaps I should have specified "reliable" or "smooth-running"....
Author:  creative1 [ Jul 28th, '07, 08:23 ]
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Have you followed it ems?
Would solve a lot of issues!
Author:  MCPHRO [ Jul 28th, '07, 09:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: Commercial viability of aquaponics
I think a commercial system would all come down to how many income streams you can generate... for a number of reasons this is important.

A. If one fails/ dies/ stops selling , hopefully the others will keep you afloat.
B. Fish are only ready every year, veggies grow all year round... so sales at different parts of the year is important.
C. Cost of set up - You really do need to start small and build from there. That way things that are successful will grow, things that there are no markets for you will only get stung a little...

As for income streams:
1. Renewable energy- Deppending on your power generation, can you sell back to the grid, and it is worth it

2. Worms - Usefuly for feeding everything and compost. A really well run worm farm would provide feed for fish, chickens, get rid of wastes, provide nutrients and... provide sellable themselves... Bunnings sells a box of worms for around $30 So if your putting your wastes into a worm farm anyway, whats it cost you to sell them for $25 ?

3. Fish - Issues. You need a licence. You can loose your whole crop overnight and disease, and, it takes a year before harvest. Good points - If you can get past that stuff, what niche markets are there to fill. Aquarium Industry would buy aquarium type fish, Sydney fish markets - but you would need bulk fish. I think the Aquaculture side personally might be too hard a carrot unless you are seriously dedicated. Talking to a manager of an aquaculture farm, he said that with the new free trade agreements - Aquaculture in Austraia is going to go down the gurgler because we cant complete with overseas cheap imports. But what nice markets could be filled - salmon, restocking, aqarium industy etc, tourism

4. Tourism - If you got a hobby farm putting all of these things into place, get tourists to visit it! Call it "The wonderful Self sustainable Permacutlure Aquaponic Farm"

5. What about Education - Helping others do what youve done. If you have your own little business and you want to travel somewhere, do alittle business and you can call it a business trip.

6. Fruit and veggie farm...

7. THe last thing is intensive, keeping costs down, and the maths... What about the margin between what it costs to get a fish to a certain size - what you sell it for! Barrumundi at the Sydney fish markets take about $7 to get them to plate size and 1 year, but sell for $9. So farmers are only making $2 per kilo I believe...

Your thoughts? Anything im missing?
Author:  rassd71 [ Jul 28th, '07, 13:14 ]
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The biggest problem with most system sellers, that's all they are. They aren't farmers. In Aquaculture, the successful farms DON'T share information, they keep their secrets close at hand. That's part of the problem for new people trying to get into the industry. The benefit of paying a consultant is that you are buying their experience and research, and if you find a GOOD consultant, it's worth it. In fish farming they say you're not a fish farmer until you've killed a million fish. And it's sad but true, you learn more from your mistakes than when things are going good.

I'll give you an analogy from my own life.
When I wanted to get my motorcycle license I decided to take a rider safety course. And a good friend of mine who has ridden for years recommend one, the cc rider course, and told me that what you'll learn will save you your first three crashes. EVERYONE who rides a bike crashes. It's a matter of time. But what I learned in that course has saved me from the newbie crashes. And I figure that's what happens when you either hire a consultant or take a good course. You're still going to make your own share of mistakes, but not the ones everyone else makes!

As for is it viable, I think so, or should I say I really hope so!

I definitely agree that diversified income streams are essential.

One thing that has been mentioned on the forum but you left out is the 'EcoTourism' side of it. Tours and education programs.

As well the idea of an onsite cafe to sell your products.

Another thing that I'm looking into is to process some of the fruit and veggie products. Specifically jams and salsa. That way I can extend the shelf life of the produce. And hopefully increase the value.
Author:  MCPHRO [ Jul 28th, '07, 13:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: Commercial viability of aquaponics
There is a salmon aquaculture farm in Tasmania doing the Ecotourism thing.. not sure of their website though...
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