Commercial AP. The real cost.

Jono

I was doin some research bout commercial AP and came across this article.
http://www.ecofilms.com.au/2012/01/25/t ... quaponics/
What are peoples opinions on this article and would it be worth looking into this course further??

Wildfire

I hate to speak ill of murray but I believe its a complete waste of money...

earthbound

I reckon that if you want to learn about something, go somewhere that they are actually doing it. With most things in life there's theory based on hypotheticals, and then there's real life actually doing it.

Jono

So are they actually doing it here or just teaching the theory?
And in your opinion, how much would it cost to set up a system that would bring in approx $1000 a week profit using a mix of media and dwc/nft growing fruiting plants as well as leaf veges?

RupertofOZ

I suppose the question really is, or should be...

Have you currently sufficient knowledge of aquaponics, aquaculture, horticulture,marketing.. and have you conducted enough market research.... have the land and/or have enough funding...to consider that an aquaponics venture can be commercially profitable... and at what level of profitbility would you consider it to be commercially viable....

If the answer is you don't have the knowledge, land or know the funding required.... can someone teach you or provide the funding...

Now Murray is certainly not going to provide the necessary funding...or the land... :lol:

And, I'm sure it will get me into trouble... given that he hasn't... to my knowledge ...ever built, or operated a "commercial" aquaponics venture (and I don't count "Red Heelers" as a commercial venture)...

Can he then provide the necessary knowledge in a training course to garantee the commercial viability of an aquaponics venture...

Obviously, he can't garantee any commercial success... and he wouldn't claim any such thing....

So, does he have the necessary knowledge to impart enough information about the subject to make such a course worthwhile....

Well again, while Murray is certainly knowledgable about basic aquaponic principles, and has seen "hobby farm" systems working in the US... he hasn't built or operated one himself, and neither really has anyone else in Australia...

Yep, Wilson Lennard has done some commercially orientated consulting both here and overseas... and several other people and organisations have trialled small scale demonstration facilities...

But there aren't any demonstarable proven commercial aquaponics systems in Australia... to my knowledge...

Certainly none based on the UVI DWC raft methodology... that's become quite popular among the recent US hobby farmers....

There's been much "tah-dah" about the recent trend towards hybrid media grow bed and raft systems.... and Murray has flagged an interpretation of this methodology under a brand name "flomedia"....

But the actual design is somewhat vague, and any demonstrable benefits... even vaguer....

Murray has in the past trialled smale scale raft implementations... and, depending which posts you read... trialled his "flomedia" sysems for 1-3 years.... but again only either in schools or a recently built "small" demo system....

Does the current knowledge and experience of "commercial" aquaponics translate from the hobby farm growers in the US... using Tilapia... and often subsidising their "profitabilty" with other revenue streams...

To here in Australia.. with our fish species, different land and labour costs.... I'm not sure.... but my gut felling is ... NO....

Is it worth the $1300.. plus travel, accomodation etc... to get a generalised over-view of what's happening overseas... and a tour of some small scale implementations.... in terms of deciding whether or not to go "commercial"...

Up to you.... it might be worth that money just to hear Wilson Lennard talk.... but it might be better spent actually touring the US... and seeing first hand some of the hobby farms... and asking some real hard questions as to "profitability"....

Or taking the UVI course.....

earthbound

The trial systems we built out the back cost us from memory about 13-15 grand for each system (I think).. viewtopic.php?f=51&t=5209

Well over 20 grand for both of them up and running anyway. We were turning out 4 rafts a week when things were pumping at it's maximum, it probably would have averaged down to 3 a week in a harsher reality. Thats planting quite advanced seedlings in rafts at the start, and thats gourmet lettuce, other plants vary of course in their growth rates. 72 holes per raft average 3-4 rafts per system per week, your looking at say 280 lettuce a week when really pumping. Allow for a few losses, 250..

So the two systems producing 500 lettuce a week, you're looking at probably around 80c a lettuce, thats $400 gross a week from the two systems, take costs out of that and there's not a lot left over.

If you doubled it to 4 systems and perhaps found a great market where you could sell your lettuce directly for 1.50 each, thats $1500 a week for an investment of 50 grand, but with some huge overheads on feed and power, and a fair amount of investment in set up.

Closer to reality is that you are probably selling for closer to 80-90 cents... So as you see things aren;t really that great.

gazza

Still, it's nice to grow a complete stirfry or fish curry from the comfort of your own backyard :thumbright:

Outbackozzie

The power costs are becoming quite an issue. We went from around 14c per kwh, heading north of 30 now

Solar power is going in very shortly

earthbound

Yeah power was starting to become an issue for us here as well, especially when we weren't actually selling produce.

earthbound

Got some interesting commercial figures in an email from Friendlies..

Quote:

Tim designed Zac's farm so that as demand increased, all Zac needed to do was add more troughs (but no more fish tanks), going straight down the hill, without needing to level the ground completely or disturb production in the existing system. This was a new innovation of trough design, which came directly from Tim's brilliant, boat-building mind. Grading Zac's farm in the traditional flat and level pads would have cost Zac an additional $75,000 up front for the entire trough area that he has available to build now.

After one year, Zac has expanded out of cash flow from four troughs to 12 troughs, all 75 feet long, powered by the same fish tank and the same number of fish (though they are much larger, now, of course). He sells almost exclusively to local wholesalers, and has a business model that projects a very conservative 75 cents per hole, per crop rotation (how long each plant is in the system).

Zac has 33 holes per 2-foot by 4-foot raft, with a 6-inch on center spacing, for a total of 1,155 holes per trough. (We now demonstrate how to double this number of holes per square foot of raft area in our trainings and our DIY manuals, with only slightly more labor, without building any more troughs. Because Zac is working primarily alone, the 6" on center spacing is working well for him.)

Zac's farm is doing so well because he's such a hard worker: he is not sitting back and trying to "manage" other people doing this while he "studies" aquaponics. He's dug ditches, installed troughs, built sprouting tables and protective hoop houses; he's developed better ways of growing and marketing aquaponic vegetables for his location.

Zac makes projections based on a very conservative rotation of five weeks, though his actual rotation (how long each plant is in the system) is closer to three weeks. This means that for every 75-foot long trough he has, he harvests 231 holes from it per week (1,155 holes divided by 5 weeks = 231 holes harvested per week per trough).

So, using the above numbers, each trough is worth $173.25 per week, at $.75/hole. With 12 troughs in full production, at $.75/hole, his average earnings are around $2,000 per week, gross ($231 x $.75 x 12 = $2,079). Due to fluctuations in weather and his market, he's found that his income moves up and down, going as low some weeks as $1,500. He's expanding to 20 troughs soon, and then his gross income will increase to $3,465 per week ($231 x $.75 x 20 = $3,465). Taking into account these fluctuations, he'll move between $3,000 and $3,500 of produce per week.

Now, let's talk about expenses. Although it has been built in phases, he designed his entire 20-trough system at one time, and as a result, Zac's electrical bill is only a fraction of ours (only $250 per month), even though he has 70% of the trough area we do. This will increase when he has 20 troughs, to about $275/month.

Quote:

Here are Zac's monthly consumables expenses:

Electricity $250.00
Water $100.00
Fish Food $240.00
Boxes $452.40
Misc Packaging $ 50.00
Farmer's Market Dues $125.00
Planting Mix - Coir/Vermiculite $151.67
Seeds $75.00
Additives/Sprays $150.00
Fuel $150.00
Misc. $250.00

Total Costs $1993.67

Quote:

His expenses will increase to about $2750 per month (totaling $33,000 per year), when he expands to 20 troughs.To put this in plain English, with 12 75-foot troughs, Zac's current operation projects a potential gross income of around $108,108 per year. The projected consumables expenses are $23,924.04, which leaves a gross net of around $84,183.96.

When he expands to 20 troughs, his gross will be around $180,180 per year, with $33,000 in consumables expenses, for a gross profit of $147,180 per year.

Now, let's talk about labor costs, and the time Zac spends working each week. In his words:

"I added up my hours and I am working about 48 hours a week. I work Monday through Saturday; some days are 8 hours, some are 10 hours, but some are less than 8 (Saturday is a 6 hour day, and Tuesdays are usually less as well). The average is around 48 hours.

I reckon these are probably some of the most realistic figures I have seen in a while.. $2000 a week gross from 12 troughs, with $500 of direct costs, plus pay off your initial set up expenses and other indirect costs, plus taxes and insurances. Then draw a wage for the 48 hours you've worked..

arbe

Murray is talking about a commercial system in someones backyard.

Don't know about you guys but my current backyard won't let me fit 20 75 x 4 foot DWC troughs in it.

Dufflight

I think Commercial Ap should only be introduced to a working hydro setup with established markets and everything already paid for. Lower the risk or have another source of income.

RupertofOZ

It is just simply not possible to have a commercial operation in a backyard... unless your backyard is measured in terms of hectares...

Murray says all sorts of things.... and most of the so called "commercial" systems in the US.... are probably about what was quoted by EB....

And none of them are paying themsleves fopr their 40-60 per week of labour either...

And therein lies the ultimate "fly in the ointment" IMO... and I've said it before....

That scale of operation... is about as much as anyone can sustain... on their own....

Beyond that .. not only is labour time a constraint.... but the sheer volume of plant production... and time/logisitics to get to market.... means you just don't have the time to work the operation....

To upscale... isn't a matter of "doubling" the operation... it ultimately means labour hire, packaging/transport/marketing logisitics..... associates diminishing costs.. with "wholesale" pricings....

And an upscale factor of about tenfold... not double...

ralath

I would love to see a diagram or pic of this setup.

ralath

And everyone always focuses on lettuce. I understand as a model lettuce is nice and easy, so many holes so many head of lettuce each week. But that contributes a lot to the labor required planting new plants all the time. I would think using a fruiting plant would considerably cut down on labor required. For example, peppers(or capsicum?). They take a couple months to grow out but then you get a continueous crop. And a simple hoop house will often extend the season far into the winter. Any thoughts? I would think cutting down on the major labor required would make things much more manageble.

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Commercial AP. The real cost.

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A place to discuss aquaponics