Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

probably better going with "Naturally grown" anyway , it sounds good , and considering all the junk out there thats calling itself "organic"

Seems to be the same as what I have found here Adrain. Three years, yearly fee, etc.

"... any thoughts ?"

I sure have one that has matured over time:
We have by no means to wait for any officials, certainly NOT on a worldwide basis which is what we have.

In fact, let's take a step ahead while we still can.

Why don't we all together create an "Aquaponics Organization" and
make up a rigid "Aquaponics Charter", based on organic principles.
Invite everybody to join the organization.

Then we can divide producers between sympathizers (i.e. those who only produce for themselves), plain members, those who do subscribe to the Charter and those who don't, and even do so inside and outside the organization.

AND, once organised, we can in time add a third category: that of the, according to the Charter, "certified" Aquaponics producers (which, I'm very sorry. does imply the paperwork and the checkups).

This would enable us to create our own quality label.

How's that?

Frank

In Belgium, there is also a "conversion" time included in certification.

I think rightly, because all soil is suspected of containing chemicals residues.

This could however reasonably be argued as not applicable to new aquaponics setups: a simple analysis of water and growbeds should be enough to prove the absence of residues.

Frank

I like the certified Aquaponics idea, but I dont think it would be the same as organic. Peeponics would be out in organic certification. Would it be allowed in Aquaponics certification?
We do not have to reinvent the wheel here, in reguards to getting Aquaponics growing certified Organic.
So I see a dual certification? Organic cert and an Aquaponics cert. Could be some value in that.
What would be the added requirements for system operators? It would have to go beyond that of organic requirements would it not?
A non profit of course, all non paid members, no dues etc.
Requirements for the cert?
Completly closed loop perhaps.
Water tests must remain within a set boundry.
So many fish allowed per gallon/ltr.
Could be a good idea but power corrupts so it would have to be set up so that it does not get out of control.

non profit is the way to go
completely open accounting would ensure at least limiting corruption.

but no fees, no dues is an illusion: you cannot expect anybody to work without payment, not on the long run. And we want long run, don't we?

No dues -only donations- for sympathizers is ok, but when you expect to financially benefit from a quality label (or even only from the credibility, for sympathizers), you should expect to have to support the organization that defends your interests. That is nothing more but reasonable.

requirements for the cert?
some initial thoughts:
1. I see two levels of certification: aquaponics and organic aquaponics.
peeponics should be definitely out for certification of any commercial produce.
What you do for yourself and your family is your problem, so peeponics is your own decision and doesn't exclude you from the aquaponics society. But do consider your responsibility should anything go wrong.
2. fish density should be directly connected to species and water exchange: some fish like density, some don't. Some like fast flow, others don't.
we all (should) know by now that density avoids cannibalism.
increasing density to this purpose should be allowed, as long as animal welfare is the motivation.
frequency of water/growbed chemical tests should be limited according to the level of certification you want.

Frank

Well since this new organization has no control over Organic certification it would have to be limited to Certified Aquaponicly Grown.
I'm not so concerned with defending interests. At this point its more of a marketing enhancement is it not. Educate comsumers on the difference and let them choose. Once a, I assume, tm sticker or symbol of some sort is made up then any infringement would have to be delt with of course. Too many things to define first I think.
So to start off.
What would Certified Aquaponicaly Grown mean?
What would be the requirements?
Fish waste used to grow plants?
Would it strickly be a closed loop system or would it include a run to waste system as well?
What about added chems for plant growth?
Would anything that did not kill the fish be allowed?
I think it best to hash out the standards that will be required first.
Global Aquaponic Producers Unite----News at 11:00

it is about credibility more than marketing: if some scammers succeed in ruining aquaponics reputation by abusing the name, we are all concerned, not only the commercial companies.

Now why would this new organisation have no saying over control of Organic certification, especially globally? It is all new to the world. We can and should defend our interests. Credibility is a key factor.

why don't you suggest answers with your questions, John?
Don't make me do all the work )

Frank

Grin...well fair enough my questions were not ment to make you work but just to get a feel for what you invisioned to be Aquaponicaly Grown.
As far as Organical Certification control sure the Ap folk could have a say but governmental agencies are a slow group. It has taken years for them to finish the aquaculture task group. Don't get me wrong I think they have done great work and do not pretent to even begin to understand all the things they had to consider and I'm sure the time that went in to it all.

Since all areas must be given fair say, I'll show you mine first.
It must be a closed loop system no run to waste.
The wellfair of the fish has to be a strong point. High stocking densities are out. Exactly what stocking densities are acceptable I'm not sure, other then if it looks crowded it is. Not to scientific as of yet I know.
Water must be tested once a week at least to ensure the quality is kept within standards for the fish.
Only natural breeding for the fish allowed.
Only home grown feed or organic feed allowed.
So thats enough of a start?
The whole system can not produce any waste that is not used else where in the system.

great, now we're getting somewhere

why don't we use the organics rules as a thread to dig deeper.
That would give us an advantage.

By the way, I completely agree on all your answers with this small amendment: Densities should not be contrary to animal well fare.
Most fish live in packed groups. Density could be better for certain species.

Frank

Ok, the final report of the National Organic Standards Board is in the file area, where do you wish to start?

Haven't read the whole thread but as to why you wouldn't be able to dictate the "organic" nature... In the US, you can't use the word organic in relation to food unless it meets certain criteria. So, you would have to start with the laws/rules that are already established and make it more stringent or build on those.

Running on little sleep here... but the only addition I thought of as I read the last piece of the thread is stringent recordkeeping. What goes in, what the test results are, source of fish, source of seeds/plants...

Okay, back to my groggy corner.

I agree on the inability to dictate the organic side of the issue and as that is already done perhaps build on that for a strickly Aquaponicaly Grown Certification both being exclusive of one another.
In my thoughts that would mean stricter conservation practices that are required by Organic certifications.
And since Organic Certification is different then Aquaponicaly grown the seeds for the plants would not need to be organic at all.

John, the origin of seed would seem to be rather important: seed can carry disease; it might be genetically modified. If it comes from Monsanto, you could end up being sued. Seed appropriately certified by a recognised organization would seem to be a wiser start.

In any case, if you set up an AP accreditation system, the origins of all other inputs need to be verifiable also. It's a complex business which is one reason it doesn't come cheap.

So defining Certified Aquaponical Grown covers a wider range. It's not Organic that were talking about is it? Just certifing Ap growth. Lots to hash out and it may indeed be just mere speculation but a good discussion just the same.
I know most as well as myself just need another governmental body and we will be just fine. ...grin...