Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Good for you! Everybody's dream come true. Good luck and make us jealous

This guy sounds genuine but I'm a bit concerned about the company he is keeping

Looks good.

I can't wait to see it come together.

How to the vertical beds rotate? Are they on a little spinner thing? I'd imagine it'd be horrible time consuming to spin it manually.

Hi Ryan, welcome and looking forward to your updates. Where about are you in Thailand?

Interesting changes and I'm looking forward to seeing what you've come up with. I not sure I understood the pumping on the AP side but I'll wait and see.

Thanks for the update.

I might be mistaken, but I think this guy is involved with Aquaponics Thailand. Lots of links to them and many of his posts appear on their FB. Hmmm….. not commercial?

Quite.

He may have started off with a different intent but the guys he seems to have teamed up with have a track record.

I have been completely transparent with you folks, would be nice if you could reciprocate. No need for subtle comments. Just ask! If you have had previous bad experiences with anyone I've purchased materials from, that is unfortunate. All of my dealings have been positive. I have nothing to lose or gain by sharing with others where I got the information, supplies, etc...that's why there are links provided.

I am not "in business" with anyone, this is my personally funded project.

Domani, I am near Hua Hin. How is your project coming along?

Colum, one day I will spin the towers, and report back on how long it took me. Essentially they are supported by a pole in the center, which allows the tower to spin independent of the base.

So you are making an aquaculture system next to a hydroponic system?

Since that is the case then be careful of information you receive from them and be careful of their business practices.

Every time I can't edit a post I think of GD, and not fondly.

What you have said about separating different loops is perfectly valid approach especially if you are less hippy/artiste(shes cool man) and more engineer/scientist (everything must be Ordnung!). Ryan Chatterson gets excellent results from separate loops within his system.

I have yet to be shown that vertical growing without artificial lighting is a good idea. There may exist some special circumstances where it may be appropriate way to combine particular crops (shade loving plants down the bottom, sun loving plants above) but I haven't yet seen an example.

A little while ago an investment banker told me that he wouldn't invest in a salad green hydro operation in 6m greenhouses because it was "an inefficient use of materials and space". He would rather invest in capsicums or tomatoes because they made "better use of the greenhouses volume". I didn't know how to reply to this politely so I didn't say anything. It is a common misconception though.

In HP and AP plants don't need to have their roots out compete their neighbours because within reason all their nutrients are delivered to them without plants having to go to any work to find them. In the dirt plant spacing can be driven by nutrient availability but it should never be the case in HP or AP.

Rather in AP and HP plants need to be spaced for three other reasons.

1. Air movement to help prevent fungal and bacterial diseases;
2. Crop access which is a particular reason with fruiting crops.
3. Light availability.

These issues may also be a concern in dirt grown crops but in HP and AP they really govern your plants productivity.

Stacking plants vertically only works when there are no other plants for them to shade, for example on the sunny side of buildings. This technique doesn't work in commercial GHs for the obvious reasons. Grow towers may have a place in backyard operations where a vertical growing area along one side of the GH (south in the southern hemisphere, north in the northern hemisphere) may make sense and could occupy a significant amount of the system space. In commercial operations their larger area means that they has less appropriate edge area for this growing technique. Although having said that there may be more justification for them close to the equator but I think not (happy to be corrected).

This can even be a problem in horizontal growing systems. In DWC and NFT plants are space or re-spaced to avoid the leaves of adjacent plants shading each other. As plants grow they expand to fill the space around them once full their leaves start to overlap. Depending on other commercial considerations (cost of plant (as in equipment), labour, etc) depends on how often plants (as in green things) are re-spaced to decrease their density. Ideally as soon as a single leaf overlaps another its past time to re-space. However, re-spacing causes the plant stress which can temporarily impede growth. Moving gully NFT systems don't have this disadvantage and they are automated but they cost the earth.

Another example of where this is an issue is in the growing of tall plants. For example, chives, spring onions and the like. These are essentially natural vertical growing systems. They can be grown very densely but if they are the vertical leaves of all the plants except those on the edge of the growing area become very shaded so the plant growth is seriously retarded. A DWC growing area of chives or spring onions looks very sparsely planted but the distances between plants has been studied very carefully determined to maximise production.

I thought it was an AQ system integrated with a HP system with an additional HP system co-located but not integrated.

This is correct. Why are we still on the frame of mind that if the system is not 100% entirely recirculating, that it is no longer AP. If there is nitrification occuring, and the plants are being fed with fish waste, it's AP.

Thanks Stuart for writing up the info on light, as it pertains to vertical growing. Let's see how they do. I won't/can't argue they are on par with other methods.

It's very difficult to do projects (for me) in a foreign country where I do not speak the language. When I learned I could source a piece of equipment (growtowers) that would allow me to plumb everything myself, without making concrete DWC growbeds, that was very appealing to me. Just personal preference, I certainly cannot scientifically attest to vertical growing being equal, more, or less efficient. I overbuilt my growing area, I still have lots of room for other options should I decide I do not like the towers.

Your welcome.

AP is the integration of AQ and HP. Many ways to integrate the different systems and even a run to waste HP system when integrated with AQ is still AP. Crap AP in my opinion but still AP

Having said that I'm having a discussion with a mob that wants to setup a cider apple orchard managed investment scheme which could be integrated with a RAS system. The challenge is how to manage the AQ part over winter when the trees are not being irrigated.

Why did the cancelled DWC have to be concrete?

Very challenging to find alternative materials in a country where you don't speak the language.

I cant entice you to Victoria can I

Even when I have looked at concrete as walls for fish tanks or raft tanks the bottoms of the tanks have never been concrete. I look at that massive slab you are proposing to be pouring and I have to remind myself that the economics of different materials are different from country to country. Even so it looks hideously expensive.

Why not a simple wall filled with gravel and covered by weed mat? Why does it have to be concrete at all?

Using pre-made blocks (we call them cinder blocks in US)and finishing in concrete, would be the most cost effective way that I am aware of.

The quality of craftsmanship here is less than desirable. Explaining what needs to be done, and how it needs to be done, is excruciating when trying to work through a translator. I do not speak Thai, but I have been told, by those who have studied the language, it is very primitive in the adjective category. When I describe a "light hue of blue, not a baby blue, but a sky blue" there is no way of describing that in Thai, so I'm told. So, in short, I opted not to open myself up to a massive margin of error. Just today for example, when approving the final cost of concrete materials and labor, I asked the same question 3 times. The first two times, I got the same incorrect answer, and then finally I got the answer I knew to be true confirmed as true. It's not an issue of deceit (wasn't even monetarily related), it's literally lost in translation.

As far as other building materials, I'm sure its possible, but any type of timber (I think you were suggesting a timber wall) of any strength is very expensive here. Termites will destroy anything that is not 1. A very hard lumber 2. treated regularly with a deterrent. (Some of this information is repeated, and I cannot attest directly to it myself). One example, I built a small chicken coup, 3 meters by 1.5 meters. The lumber was over $700. Yes, it's overbuilt, yes there where more cost effective options, but I went with the hardest wood I could find, and will never have to touch that thing again.

The cost I paid for concrete materials and labor is 450 baht (13.92 USD) per square meter. Naturally, that price fluctuates as you adjust the depth of the concrete.

It's still going to be expensive, I'll give you the final price later, don't want to talk about it now. lol

This is not a model anyone will look at and say "Hey, that's cost effective!" Cuz it won't be. It will however, be built to last. I'm basically in hiatus (work wise) guys, I'm just doing this for fun. I'm still young, one day I will go back to work. Right now I want to spend a few years playing with AP on a bigger scale.