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becoming self sufficient, how much volume is needed?
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Author:  adzza [ Jun 29th, '10, 12:15 ]
Post subject:  becoming self sufficient, how much volume is needed?
Hey all,

Just asking a rather vauge question I am sure.

I currently am getting ready to build my greenhouse which will house all my AP gear that I already have.

already have all my AP gear.

I have 5000L of water, and 3500L of GB at this stage. I suspect I will have more growing space in my greenhouse, but that will be in dirt, not AP.

How mch volume is essentially required on average per person to be mostly self sustainng? I understand that its not 100% as we always need to nick down to the shops to get those bits and bobs, but on a whole I a rather interested if anyone is running an AP system, and can say well, I have X L of waterm and X litres of grow beds and we self sustain.

Any advice here?

Cheers!
Author:  faye [ Jun 29th, '10, 13:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: becoming self sufficient, how much volume is needed?
I have given this a lot of thought over the last week and for me I would say 2 growbeds could support 1 person if you were to work at harvesting and preserving the produce to be able to provide year round variety. 1000 litre fish tank could grow 100 fish in a year, that would give you 1kg of either barramundi or trout per week. Dietary guidelines
Quote:
ADVICE ON FISH CONSUMPTION
There are many nutritional benefits from eating fish.
Fish is low in saturated fat and is an excellent source of
protein, essential omega-3 fatty acids, iodine, and some
vitamins. Australian Dietary Guidelines recommend eating
a variety of protein-rich foods including meats, poultry, fish,
eggs, nuts and legumes.

Interesting fact- 1 serve = 150 grams of fish (75 grams for a child up to 6 years old).
But then there are many other requirements such as grains, fruits, chicken and red meat.
Sorry I don't think I answered your question at all. :(
Author:  vlt [ Jun 29th, '10, 14:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: becoming self sufficient, how much volume is needed?
The answer to that question is "how long is a piece of string?"

I think the correct way of going about it is:
1. How much space do I have?
2. How much money can I spend?
3. Do I want to build "end game" now or expand later?

If you find you are constrained by room or funding then though titties. If you grow too much, conserve or give away.

I think each member system here was started not on the assumption of being self sufficient but rather how much room or $ they have access to.

Not saying don't ask the question but everyone is different. For my wife and I we eat about 2 kg of oranges, 2 kg of apples, 10 bananas and 10 kiwi fruit a week. We also have at least 2 serves of veggies a day. Not knowing your intake, noone is going to be able to answer the self sufficiency question. Our aim is to minimize purchases of veggies, duck meat and chicken eggs. What's your aim?
Author:  adzza [ Jun 29th, '10, 14:18 ]
Post subject:  Re: becoming self sufficient, how much volume is needed?
Good question, whats my aim.

My aim is to grow as much of my own produce. We consume approx 10 tomatoes, 3 cucumbers, and a lettuce each week. We usually go through about 10 vaired pieces of fruit each week, depending on what we buy at the super market. I want chickens for eggs, but my dog has already eaten two of the neighbors chickens, so not so wise for me to get them, besides the neighbor gives us eggs and we pln to trade fish/veggies for eggs.

I have the option of building my greenhouse larger than I actually need it, an whilst the wife has approved, I plan on taking advantage of that. Originally it was going to be big enough for my current setup (3000L FT, 1000L FT, 1000: Sump, 5 x 700L growbeds), however since I live on 1/4 acre, and have room to burn as my house takes up a small footprint, I might as well make it bigger!

As stated I already have everything, bar the greenhouse itself which I am going to build myself so money is not an issue. I have always had great pleasure in investing in AP. Its certainly a hobby yes, but its a way of change that hopefully we can pass on to others to reduce our impact on the environment. I am happy to throw money at that cause. Think "Food inc", etc. I am getting behind this cause big time.

I want to lead a healthy lifestyle and in that eat fresh, home grown produce, as much as possible. Essentially I am asking will 5 x 700L grow beds provide enough produce for 2 people all year round...again, how long is that string??? lol.
Author:  vlt [ Jun 29th, '10, 17:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: becoming self sufficient, how much volume is needed?
The biggest problem will be how you stagger your plantings to give you a varied produce. The more beds you have the easier.

What you don't want is to plant 10 zucchini plants and have to eat that non stop!
Author:  embi [ Jun 29th, '10, 17:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: becoming self sufficient, how much volume is needed?
We are trying to do this but it is hard during winter. I think the summer crop needs to be one that you can preserve things for winter.

During summer we gave a lot of things away to neighbours etc because we couldn't keep up but now in winter we aren't getting a lot. We did preserve quite a bit and even just today I had pickled cucumbers at work with my lunch and I couldn't keep my coworkers away.

I think it may take us a few years to work out how to plant to maximise our food production but we are newbies to veggie gardens so it may be something that comes more natural to others.

Read our blog (link below) and you can see what sort of results we have had.
Author:  TCLynx [ Jun 29th, '10, 22:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: becoming self sufficient, how much volume is needed?
Not knowing your climate, it is hard to give a very detailed answer. Where I live, the greenhouse needs to completely open up for summer or everything just cooks. Going big as you can with the greenhouse is a good idea though since you will always fine ways to cram more stuff in there for the winter.

The important part here is to carefully define "self sufficient" in order to properly focus your efforts. (If you are trying to grow all your food on your small lot, you may drive yourself nuts attempting to grow coffee and grain.) I've heard of one person managing to survive completely on what he could grow in 4000 square feet of organic garden in a temperate climate. Apparently he had to grow lots of potatoes to manage this on such a small plot and he is really emaciated. I've read also that some permaculture guru insists that a family can be supported by what is grown in the swath 50 feet surrounding the dwelling. Unfortunately the permaculture guru doesn't really explain how to create these perennial gardens that would feed the household with little ongoing labor.

Often times becoming more self sufficient involves changing one's diet and habits to work with local seasonal produce as well as what can be preserved from your own garden during the plentiful season.

So does self sufficient only mean garden veggies and the fruits we usually call veggies? Or are you trying to get more inclusive.

Then there is also the system and fish choice. Some systems will be more efficient at growing veggies depending on many variables.

And also how efficient you are with keeping up the staggered planting and harvesting will make a big difference in how sufficient any grow bed will be for you. you will have to find the right balance for yourself. Aquaponics, all about balance.

But it seems to be a recurring idea that two grow beds per person will provide a major quantity of the fresh veggies per person So that sounds like a good place to start.
Author:  caribis [ Jun 29th, '10, 23:27 ]
Post subject:  Re: becoming self sufficient, how much volume is needed?
You say that you already have all of your AP gear. Are you running an AP system and simply plan on moving it into a greenhouse or do you have a bunch of containers and grow media and you are ready to build your first system? If the former, then you know how much you can grow and it is a simple question of math. Not so simple since winter sunlight is different than summer sunlight and there is the whole greenhouse unknown. But at least you should be able to make good estimates. If the second, I'd concentrate on moving up the learning curve first and worry about proper sizing second.
Author:  TCLynx [ Jun 30th, '10, 02:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: becoming self sufficient, how much volume is needed?
Well he has already said the greenhouse will be up sized beyond what the current AP system needs. Ya know, it is always a good idea to have a quarantine system to put the new fish in, so that might get added :thumbleft:

Definitely a good idea to go as big on the greenhouse as is reasonable since the space will get used somehow. :wave:
Author:  creative1 [ Jun 30th, '10, 04:55 ]
Post subject:  Re: becoming self sufficient, how much volume is needed?
Picking up on the point about seasonal fruit and veggies...
All the citrises rippen in winter so it would seem having those will help a lot.
Placement would be important since you don't want to cramp the AP system for light and space.
[Winter]Deciduous(sp?) vines and trees are going to save the ground heating up in summer...
and give you a crop of tasty parcels... and let the light in during winter
I'd be suggesting that you trellis a lot of area to encurage growth away from the system (and reduce shading)... :support:
(Tomatoes can grow upto 10 mtrs when trained properly)
This does a few things.. Reduces the amount of leaf litter(detris) and allows you to grow
Edible ground covers .. lettuce(s) carrots herbs etc.
I know a few people who are amazed at how far passionfruit, tommies, kiwi fruit etc. for example will 'train'.
OBO grew heaps of Watermellon, this all grows away from the GBs... or above as the case may be. :notworthy:
And 'can' allow a better fish ratio as the system will be removing Nitrate as soon as it is available.
So long as there is sufficent 'bio mass' the system will cycle nicely.

... but all this is 'hard head space zone' and somewhat speculative to get a result.
Lots of trials and corrections, there are NO errors just learning curves :laughing3:
'Have fun eat well - Chuck in a bigger system'

C1...rant over and out
Author:  Yaacov Levi [ Jun 30th, '10, 22:29 ]
Post subject:  Re: becoming self sufficient, how much volume is needed?
You are off to an excellent start, I think that your plan is very doable, do your planting in small amounts per kind, to give you what your use is, sometimes you will have a lot extra to give away or swap, keep your neighbor well supplied including pulled plants for his c hickens.

Good advice on doing the GH oversized, believe me you will use the extra, none will be wasted.

Good luck , share how it goes.
Author:  TheNative [ Feb 10th, '11, 14:11 ]
Post subject:  Re: becoming self sufficient, how much volume is needed?
Just thought this article and video I saw a while back were relevant to this thread. Basically a family of 4 living on a tenth of an acre (4000 sq ft, 400 sq meters)

For me the 1000 gallon system I have in my backyard is putting out more stuff than I know what to do with, and it's winter right now. I'm already giving a bunch of stuff away. I have had to figure out new ways to eat things, like braised or boiled lettuce... Just couldn't eat another salad. =)

I'm not self sufficient, not by a long shot, but with enough time and experience I think I could be with the system I have.

http://urbanhomestead.org/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIFPFpxBFVE
Author:  JoshuaCA10 [ Aug 14th, '11, 02:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: becoming self sufficient, how much volume is needed?
TCLynx wrote:
But it seems to be a recurring idea that two grow beds per person will provide a major quantity of the fresh veggies per person So that sounds like a good place to start.


May I ask what the size of the grow beds are?
Author:  jessy [ Aug 14th, '11, 06:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: becoming self sufficient, how much volume is needed?
adzza wrote:
but my dog has already eaten two of the neighbors chickens, so not so wise for me to get them, besides the neighbor gives us eggs and we pln to trade fish/veggies for eggs.


A good trick to Curve this behaviour, is to tie the dead chook to the dogs neck and let it rot...believe me, 2 weeks with a dead chook tied to his head, he won't do it again :funny1: and he won't be comming in the house being the family favourite for that time either, cause he is a stinky :mrgreen:

The plus side to having your own chooks, you also get the meat, and the manure, so having your own chooks is a big plus IMHO :flower:
Author:  earthbound [ Aug 14th, '11, 10:22 ]
Post subject:  Re: becoming self sufficient, how much volume is needed?
Thats a very cool video... Producing a lot of stuff in their small yard, and selling it..? I notice they even had a couple of small goats out the back..
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