Backyard Aquaponics :: View topic - Some basic questions

Author:

hydrophilia [ Nov 18th, '09, 23:09 ]

Post subject:

Re: Some basic questions

adzza wrote:

I am wondering what the function of a sump is? Why not just pump water from the FT, to the GB's, and let it drain back to the FT?

My biggest system does just that, but there are some other advantages to a sump tank with the biggest being that, if you are going with a 2:1 growbed:fishtank system then it will take about 2/3 of your fishtank water to fill your growbeds and fish don't like that fluctuation. My biggest system is a big tank, small growbed, few fish with the fish matched to growbed, so tank only fluctuates about 10cm. If I expand, I'll be adding a sump tank.

adzza wrote:

Also wondering if its ok to have your FT above ground? I am picking up a 4500L tank this weekend, and would need a massive hole in the earth to fit it below ground. Will above ground be sufficient? I understand being in the ground can keep temps more stable, but does that really matter with 4500 liters?

If you have lots of growbeds or your FT is in the sun temps will fluctuate due to large area to absorb or lose heat. Starting out with fewer fish and less growbed (and shaded fishtank) you should be fine.

adzza wrote:

Can anyone point me in the direction of a solid introduction (thread) of how the system should be put together? Construction guides for different types of systems, etc? I understand their are books available but refuse to purchase them at the given prices ($100 for a >100 page book is crazy) plus I would rather save the paper as I already have internet access. I want to be green about this, including my research!

Check uniseals as those are great little things. Also autosiphons vs timed pump with a drain, SLO (used with CHIFT PIST), solids tend to end up in center of fish tank if you set it up to swirl, more air is healthier......

adzza wrote:

I should state that I am in the stages of collecting equipment to put my first system together, and whilst some may think 4500L is to much, I am running on the principle that its better to have more tank space to begin with, so that when I want to expand, which everyone does, I have the water capacity to do so. I am not interested in upgrading my water tank each time I want to expand.

I couldn't agree more.

Have fun!

Author:	adzza [ Nov 18th, '09, 10:35 ]
Post subject:	Some basic questions
Hi all, Just wondering if anyone can help me piece some bits of the puzzle together. I am wondering what the function of a sump is? Why not just pump water from the FT, to the GB's, and let it drain back to the FT? Also wondering if its ok to have your FT above ground? I am picking up a 4500L tank this weekend, and would need a massive hole in the earth to fit it below ground. Will above ground be sufficient? I understand being in the ground can keep temps more stable, but does that really matter with 4500 liters? Can anyone point me in the direction of a solid introduction (thread) of how the system should be put together? Construction guides for different types of systems, etc? I understand their are books available but refuse to purchase them at the given prices ($100 for a >100 page book is crazy) plus I would rather save the paper as I already have internet access. I want to be green about this, including my research! I should state that I am in the stages of collecting equipment to put my first system together, and whilst some may think 4500L is to much, I am running on the principle that its better to have more tank space to begin with, so that when I want to expand, which everyone does, I have the water capacity to do so. I am not interested in upgrading my water tank each time I want to expand. Thanks in advance, and this looks like a great forum to be a part of. Keep it up everyone!

Backyard Aquaponics http://byap.backyardmagazines.com/forum/

Some basic questions http://byap.backyardmagazines.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=6555	Page 1 of 1

Author:	Simo [ Nov 18th, '09, 11:36 ]
Post subject:	Re: Some basic questions
I started with a 4500L tank also and I think that a larger volume of water with a small number of fish is more forgiving when you start out as your stuff ups will be diluted in the water and not kill any fish. I cycled with 98 small silver perch and only one died. My tank was also too big to dig a hole for so it is plonked on the ground, heaps of people with big FTs do the same. If your FT is not lower than your GBs then you will need a sump as gravity wont get the water back too the FT. If your FT is low and wide you may be able to gravity drain back to the FT but the pump will be sitting in dirty FT water and you will need to clean it periodically. By having a high FT and low sump with GBs in between you can run a CHIFT PIST (Constant Height in Fish Tank Pump In Sump Tank) system which is what I use. The advantages are you only need one pump, the pump is sitting in clean sump water, you don't need to dig a hole for the FT and you have 2 bodies of water to use for a variety of seafood. Search for CHIFT PIST Pictures at the start of my system will show you how CHIFT PIST works I hope, link below.

Author:	Simo [ Nov 18th, '09, 11:49 ]
Post subject:	Re: Some basic questions
I just noticed that you tank is 870mm high which is a bit of a pain because it is neither high (mine is 1000mm) nor low but just sort of in the middle meaning that if you were to pump from FT to GB and drain back the top of the GB would need to be about 1400 from the ground (how tall are you?) if you were to run CHIFT PIST the top of the GB would be around 800mm from the ground (not bad when you consider the average kitchen bench is 900mm) but you would probably need to dig the sump tank into the ground depending on its shape. An IBC would need about a 700mm deep hole to be used as a sump (I did dig mine in but I am only using half an IBC so the hole was not that deep), this would still be a smaller hole than digging the FT in.

Author:	Simo [ Nov 18th, '09, 11:59 ]
Post subject:	Re: Some basic questions
Oh and the BYAP web site has great info on different design pros and cons, read that. http://www.backyardaquaponics.com

Author:	adzza [ Nov 18th, '09, 12:18 ]
Post subject:	Re: Some basic questions
Thanks guys. I should also mention that my block is on a slope! yes!!!! and the FT will be at the bottom. I can easily have the GB's 1 meter or higher above the FT.

Author:	TCLynx [ Nov 19th, '09, 01:30 ]
Post subject:	Re: Some basic questions
Trying to get your mind around everything is a big job but it can be done. All my AP learning has mostly been right off this forum. Lots of reading to do though. Start off by reading the entirety of the Basic Information section and then the Useful information section. There is a diagram thread that might help you get ideas about different types of systems. Then I suggest picking a few of the big long member system threads and reading them all the way through (might have to take notes about what page you leave off so you can pick it up again when you have time.) And if you give some notes about what you have in mind, we might be able to direct you to some member system threads that might be similar to what you are thinking of doing. This should give you a chance to learn from mistakes made by others so you don't have to make them your self. In your search for things like CHIFT PIST, you might do the search and then ask for the list to be re-sorted to show you the oldest first which should give you a clearer idea of what it all means rather than just people mentioning it in passing. A slope is a great thing Creative1 started a thread on a system on a slope that looks really cool. I wonder if I can find a link to it for you. Here it is http://backyardaquaponics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=5504 As to why a sump tank, well as noted before, if you have lots of grow beds to get the 2:1 grow bed to fish tank ratio, you will need some way to deal with water level fluctuations so the fish don't stress too much. However, now with a spider valve, that is not as necessary anymore. However, another good use of a sump tank is when one wants to have a constant level in their fish tank, you then need a sump tank to take care of all the level fluctuations and hence a sump tank. Even better is when you set up the constant level in fish tank so the fish tank overflows directly into grow beds and the solids are caught there and the sump tank water is really clean which means almost never needing to worry about cleaning the pump and you could then use some of the flow of clean water directly from the main pump to feed things like NFT pipes or DWC beds without needing to worry about extra filtration for the water to those growing methods. All that said, a simple system where the water is pumped from the fish tank to higher grow beds and then gravity drains from the grow beds back to fish tank does work and is simple. Just make sure that your beds are set level when you place things on a slope. Sloping grow beds don't work so good.

Author:	adzza [ Nov 19th, '09, 08:03 ]
Post subject:	Re: Some basic questions
Hey guys, Thanks for all the input. I think because I have a sloped block, I will use that advantage to make the system simpler, at least initially. I thought I might share some photos of my block. Please keep in mind that we are getting new fences at the moment. In the photos above, the green shed is NOT mine, but my neighbors, and outlines the boundary of my property. I have done a rough outline of where I might put the tank. I have an easement running along the back of the block which is no major issue, but the damn easement access point is right in the corner where I wanted to put the tank, and I don't want to cut down that tree, so I will get it as close as possible. I will be setting up a shade sail off the fence to give the tank a canopy for shade. because the ground is not level I will dig out the ground so that it sits level meaning that it will be half buried which should help temps slightly. I plan on putting the grow beds along the ridge where the sleepers are currently resting.

Author:	adzza [ Nov 22nd, '09, 16:18 ]
Post subject:	Re: Some basic questions
Well I ended up buying the tank and picking it up this weekend. Bought it off royale. Great bloke. Thanks very much! Because of the rain, and my current landscaping efforts, my retaining wall trenches flooded with water and over flowed! They are 600mm deep and run along the whole property, at 20M. So I had to drain them with a pump, but I didn't have one....So i bought one that would drain the trenches, and one that I can use for my AP setup. YAY! I bought a EBara Optima MA, which can move 8000L per hour. Its awesome, and I have already poulled it apart twice to clean it. Its a fantastic pump. Was easier to justify to the wife this way! Time to start a log in the members section me thinks.

Author:	KudaPucat [ Nov 22nd, '09, 17:32 ]
Post subject:	Re: Some basic questions
Adzza, you're block looks a lot like mine, and your tank is going in the exact same place mine did. Check out my thread if you want. (there's a link in my signature) Sloped blocks are great, but be aware you can be pumping long distances, and sometimes great heights, so you'll probably need a different style of pump to most ppl. What I can tell you, is put in pipes 2 - 3 times bigger than the pump manufacturer recommends. I mean this, don't guess. I have laid the same pipe 3 times in some places, each time a bit bigger. Good luck, and keep us posted!

Author:	RupertofOZ [ Nov 22nd, '09, 21:00 ]
Post subject:	Re: Some basic questions
Milne (F&F) is around your way adzza... and has terraced his backyard... You should drop over to his place and have a look... he will be able to tell you ANYTHING you want/need to know...

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Author:	adzza [ Nov 23rd, '09, 05:15 ]
Post subject:	Re: Some basic questions
Yeah he was away last week but is back this week. I am going to head over this week hopefully and get a first hand look at the setup. Great to have such a fantastic resource of knowledge close by!