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Which light?
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Author:  Fraggle [ Oct 29th, '09, 23:06 ]
Post subject:  Which light?
Hello again!

I haven't yet got around to doing my planned herbs grown in PVC over my fish tanks, it's amazing how time flies sometimes!!

I have a question about lighting. I really am a complete lighting nuffy when it comes to W and K and what plants need etc :D

I still haven't got the lights, so I'd better start with them, or no matter what I do the plants won't grow.

I can get a 3foot double light, http://www.aquathrive.com.au/product_in ... cts_id=122 that comes with 2 tubes, the white 10000K ones. I can also get red 6500K tubes and blue 20000K tubes for $99.99 (now tha double says that the tubes are 96W, but I'm not sure about that, the triple and quad say 39W)
Or a 3 foot triple for about $119 or a 3 foot 4 tube for $179

Now which one do you think would best grow my herbs? And what tubes would be best to go in them?

I do promise that once I actually get everything organised, and I'm putting it all together, I will post photos :lol:
Author:  Hautions11 [ Oct 30th, '09, 02:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: Which light?
As a very crude rule of thumb 7-8000 ranges are for green vegatative growth. Lower 2000-3000 levels are for fruiting and flowering phases. People use two lights, there are cross over bulbs that give wider spectrums etc. I tend to be more practical. Floresants that you are describing are fine but will not promote rapid growth due to relatively low output. They also are relatively inefficient at lumen production per watt. Low power leads to the practice of keeping bullbs VERY close to vegitation as the lumens drop off exponentially with distance. You may want to look at the Meatl Halide lights for herbs that are mostly vegatative growth anyway. A 400w will do a 4 X 4' area. Cheap digital balast systems with reflctor are $100ish. They also save energy in the long run for equal lumen levels. you can also buy the bulbs at big box stores for $20ish My 2 cents worth.
Author:  Fodder [ Nov 2nd, '09, 08:45 ]
Post subject:  Re: Which light?
Hi Guys,

I am not an expert, but if you have a freind that is good with electronics they are also using the new range of super bright LED's for aquaruim lights. (specifically Salt water stuff and that is how i came by it)
The LED's they use, luxion stars, also come with clip on refelctors, wide and spot.
I am not sure of the color temp and if they use that actual brand as there are several.

I have seem these in action and they are so bright that you can not look at them. I also saw a study done with a comersiallly availabe light hood and a lux meter that said they gave better light. (done by a user, not the company)

The other beneit of these is that depending on what one you want they come in 1,3,5w @12 volts. So with a bit of stuffing around you could save a lot of energy over the Metal Hailide @400w, 240V. But to be fair you do need quite a few to get the same coverage as a MH. (i think the one i saw add about 20 or so.) But MH also should be replaced every 12m (for fish tanks) sa the "ware out" in some way.

There are a lot of pro and cons on both sides, but the big two are the LED produce stuff all heat and use heaps less electricity.

But be aware that this is early stages using these LED for this application. I looked at this 6+ months ago, so there might be more info out there now. Go and have a look at some of the Salt water aquarum sites.

anyway there is my 2c worth.......
Author:  TCLynx [ Nov 2nd, '09, 08:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: Which light?
In my research about lighting and all. (Ok, don't know much about the LED stuff since they were not really to a point that I could afford even thinking about them yet. So just talking Florescent or MH or HPS.)
They all for the same lumens use about the same wattage and create the same amount of heat. So, what is best depends on what you want them to do. The MH and HPS provide a very bright point source that is very hot but can get light through a leaf canopie so are more appropriate to taller plants. Florescents are more appropriate to plantings that are all about the same height and can have the light only a couple inches from the leaves. The light is more spread out and cooler per square inch but 400 watts of florescent is going to produce about the same amount of overall heat as a 400 watt MH.
Author:  Fodder [ Nov 2nd, '09, 09:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: Which light?
TCLynx wrote:
In my research about lighting and all. (Ok, don't know much about the LED stuff since they were not really to a point that I could afford even thinking about them yet. So just talking Florescent or MH or HPS.)


Hi,

Have another look at them. They have come down dramatically in price, i can buy a 1w luxion star fro about AU$14
(quick google search turned up this http://www.ledsales.com.au/catalog/inde ... mdl1qcgas1 )
and here is a driver for said luxeon star http://www.ledsales.com.au/catalog/inde ... cts_id=615

agreed that they cost more but they produce virtually no heat! Also my electronics friend says that if you "strobe or flash" them at a rate above our vision the life goes from 1 year (constantly on) too 10 years.

Interesting stuff, esp for people that are doing things indoors.

Later next year i am going to get my saltwater reef tank back up and running, and i am going to give them a go.
Author:  jpcw [ Nov 2nd, '09, 15:32 ]
Post subject:  Re: Which light?
I have had very good results with the aerogarden and was going to get some of these to put over our indoor 600L fish tank

https://globalshopdirect.com.au/index.p ... Itemid=110
Author:  Fraggle [ Nov 3rd, '09, 18:11 ]
Post subject:  Re: Which light?
Thanks for the input guys!!
I'll look into the LED's, didn't even know that they were in existance.
Food for thought (let's hope that there is some food being grown soon, LOL)
Author:  jpcw [ Nov 3rd, '09, 19:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: Which light?
Fraggle wrote:
Thanks for the input guys!!
I'll look into the LED's, didn't even know that they were in existance.
Food for thought (let's hope that there is some food being grown soon, LOL)

I tried LEDs. They seem to work quite well however you need either a lot of them or some very high output ones. The ones I got from ebay were ok and probably were more efficient per watt however the compact fluro's were much better per foot.
Author:  jpcw [ Nov 3rd, '09, 19:44 ]
Post subject:  Re: Which light?
Fodder wrote:
TCLynx wrote:
In my research about lighting and all. (Ok, don't know much about the LED stuff since they were not really to a point that I could afford even thinking about them yet. So just talking Florescent or MH or HPS.)


Hi,

Have another look at them. They have come down dramatically in price, i can buy a 1w luxion star fro about AU$14
(quick google search turned up this http://www.ledsales.com.au/catalog/inde ... mdl1qcgas1 )
and here is a driver for said luxeon star http://www.ledsales.com.au/catalog/inde ... cts_id=615

agreed that they cost more but they produce virtually no heat! Also my electronics friend says that if you "strobe or flash" them at a rate above our vision the life goes from 1 year (constantly on) too 10 years.

Interesting stuff, esp for people that are doing things indoors.

Later next year i am going to get my saltwater reef tank back up and running, and i am going to give them a go.

Just watch what ones you get. You want blue and red not just white. The white ones waste a lot of energy in the spectrum that the plants don't use.
Author:  jpcw [ Nov 3rd, '09, 19:48 ]
Post subject:  Re: Which light?
TCLynx wrote:
They all for the same lumens use about the same wattage and create the same amount of heat.

Actually you don't want the heat. Normal indoor temps are fine for the plants, if the globes are too hot they will damage the plants. You need to get the globes as near the plants as possible to make best use of the light but far enough away to not burn the leaves.

Best is to set up a system that you can move the light away as the plant grows.
Author:  Fodder [ Nov 4th, '09, 14:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: Which light?
Hi there,

Yea, LED lights are really interesting. Yes you do require more of them, but your power usage is lower and their life is heaps longer. Add in the fact that they produce next to no heat and your on a winner.

There are some hurdles to over come, like the control of them. The aquarium hood probably has 20-30 of them in it. It has some spiffy controls that can turn some off to make "clouds" and flash for lighting etc. either way there is an expanding market for them.

And for JPCW (nice site in your sig btw) they are making headlights for EV cars out of them now!! (that and HID) Also EV bikes have been using them.
Author:  jpcw [ Nov 4th, '09, 15:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: Which light?
Fodder wrote:
Hi there,

And for JPCW (nice site in your sig btw) they are making headlights for EV cars out of them now!! (that and HID) Also EV bikes have been using them.

Yep been wanting to get or make some for a while now. Problem is our local licensing laws are very specific about what you can use. Also I just can't seem to find a supplier for readymade/approved ones.

I already use LED break lights. Got to change my flasher unit over before I can use the indicators as the LED’s do not draw enough power to activate the flasher.
Author:  Hautions11 [ Nov 5th, '09, 09:48 ]
Post subject:  Re: Which light?
Lot's of good input here. One of the reasons I like the metal halide etc is the heat. I am on an unheated three season porch with some insulation. One mans waste heat is another mans supplemental heat source. There is a lot of good information around on this subject and there are plenty of solutions depending on the overall effect that you are trying to achieve.
Author:  Fraggle [ Nov 9th, '09, 19:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: Which light?
The tanks are already heated, so I think I'll avoid the hailides. Don't want these ones cooked, LOL
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