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 Post subject: Veg safety
PostPosted: Sep 30th, '08, 02:22 
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Hi, I have a question for anyone that might know. I am new to Ap and am completely sold on the idea and am currently constructing my greenhouse to house my Ap set up. I also am very interested in starting a small commercial operation. Finally to my question ! With the way food safety is these days my marketing for the veg would be local, natural, sustainable and most of all safe. Has there been studies on the microbial content of the fish waste. Does it contain e-coli or salmanella?


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 Post subject: Re: Veg safety
PostPosted: Sep 30th, '08, 10:14 
Here is a response to this question by Dr. James Rakocy, the Director of the University of the Virgin Islands Agricultural Experiment Station and who has been doing research in aquaponics for over 20 years.

Quote:
Question :

What steps are taken in aquaponics to ensure that bacteria associated with fish solid waste (E. coli, etc.) do not contaminate crops to be consumed by humans?

Cary Mitchell, Purdue University
West Lafayette, Indiana


Answer :

Pathogenic organisms that enter water through fecal contamination are very difficult to isolate and identify.

However, coliform bacteria, which are present in large quantities in the intestinal tracts of humans and warm-blooded animals are easily tested and commonly used to indicate fecal contamination.

Each person discharges from 100 to 400 billion coliform bacteria per day. They aid digestion through the breakdown of food. The presence of coliforms does not always mean contamination with human or animal waste as some species can grow in soil but Escherichia coli (E. coli) are entirely of fecal origin.

Drinking water is considered safe when less than 5% of water samples test positive for total coliform bacteria. However, those samples testing positive must be tested for fecal coliforms.

No fecal coliforms are allowed in drinking water but the standard for recreational water is 235 organisms/100 ml in a single sample.

There are hundreds of strains of E. coli that are harmless. However, one strain, identified as O157:H7 and associated with cattle feces, creates powerful toxins and has caused many illnesses and deaths.

Aquaponic systems could be exposed to fecal contamination from warm-blooded animals. In an outdoor system contamination could come from birds for example. In an indoor system contamination could come from rodents.

However, the dose would be quite small and it would not occur regularly. Any coliform bacteria that get into the system would be highly diluted. I doubt that there would be any contamination from cattle feces.

In the 20 years we have been growing plants aquaponically at the University of the Virgin Islands, no one has ever gotten ill.

In the past we raised mainly lettuce, which was washed but not cooked to kill bacteria. Normally the leaves do not contact with the culture water, but some water gets on the leaves from splashing or during packaging operations.

Look at the alternative, which is field production of lettuce. Manures are often used as a soil amendment, including cattle manure. During rainstorms, soil splashes on the leaves. A field is a more natural habitat for birds, mice, rats, rabbits, squirrels, etc.

The issue should be studied. In the meantime, I would not be overly concerned about microbial health risks in aquaponic systems.



However... please note... the above response relates to warm blooded land animals ...

Fish are cold blooded animals... so I don't belive that their excretions contain fecal coliforms such as E. coli ....

Fish digestion works in a completely different way to humans or farm animals.

Fish excretory products pose no danger whatsoever to humans because they do not contain E-coli or any of the other potentially pathogenic bacteria or viruses that are found in human or farm sewage.


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 Post subject: Re: Veg safety
PostPosted: Oct 9th, '08, 01:27 
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Thank you for the info ! Very helpful.


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 Post subject: Re: Veg safety
PostPosted: Nov 9th, '08, 01:05 
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Here in the UK we are visited and approved by Trading Standards before we can sell to the public -they (TS agency) lay down guidelines for the handling of ALL food for sale.
We also have a notice printed on our produce "Please wash produce well before using".
It appears that the water and chemicals used by some firms to wash their produce before sale is not what you and I are happy with!
So the onus is on the purchaser to wash the freshly picked and bagged produce!
We have been selling our hp and ap produce this way for a couple of years now - with *touchwood* no repurcussions.


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 Post subject: Re: Veg safety
PostPosted: Nov 9th, '08, 12:53 
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Very thought provoking post Rupe.....
Thank you. :flower:
In your opinion would using cow manure to create algae bloom in the fish pond then not be a risk because fish are cold-blooded? I am talking AP. Your comments strongly suggest this.
Do you know of some specific links where I could read up on this? I would also appreciate the link from your quoted post if you still have it.
I am always looking at pure sustainablility on my farm. Perceptions are important in marketing..... as Frank is always telling me! :D .... and is true..... so ready sources of information would be helpful. I am willing to re-educate my market if necessary. There seems to be a scare-factor out there not always driven by complete facts.


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 Post subject: Re: Veg safety
PostPosted: Nov 9th, '08, 13:00 
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Another thought Rupe....
What do you think of the common perception that salmonella from chicken poop can be carried into the fish?
I did read very recently that wine taken with a meal that contains salmonella will destroy it and no food poisoning will occur. The same meal made others who had had no wine very ill.
Quote:
FOOD POISONING AND WINE

Date: Sat 15 Nov 2003

Wine’s reputation for positive health attributes was initially confirmed in a study recently in the British Medical Journal. A team of esearchers led by Martin Weisse, M.D., of West Virginia University reported that both red and white wine efficiently wipe out bacteria responsible for food-related stomach ailments, such as food poisoning, dysentery and diarrhea, performing even better than bismuth salicylate (Pepto-Bismol).

Red and white wine proved superior to all other solutions in fighting the effects of the three bacteria tested: salmonella, shigella and E coli. "Whatever the active anti-microbial agent in wine," the investigators wrote, "we found that wine is a better antibacterial agent than bismuth salicylate against the most common genera of bacteria that cause traveler's diarrhea." .........
rest of the article here....http://www.truewines.co.nz/news.php?nid=117244&nt=2

Can always have wine-bibbing chickens! :cheers: :D :cheers:


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 Post subject: Re: Veg safety
PostPosted: Nov 9th, '08, 13:11 
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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Heh, would the eggs be hungover?


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 Post subject: Re: Veg safety
PostPosted: Nov 9th, '08, 16:19 

Joined: Oct 27th, '08, 07:11
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just my.02

Been reading up a lot recently on manure as a compost source for increasing organic content in soil.

The recommendation that I remember, and it was slightly on the paranoid side, was to compost cow manure for at least 60 days before risking cross contamination with foodstuff. The article was for broad acre vegetable production and was aiming for 0 risk.

I don't have a citation handy but I can probably trawl back and find it if anyone is interested.


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 Post subject: Re: Veg safety
PostPosted: Nov 11th, '08, 17:04 
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Not hard to do.... 60 days. May be worth the effort when going commercial to give market peace of mind. Other manures do not seem to be a threat.


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