Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

So I did some research about my city water and it seems they add chlorine and ammonia which then turns into chloramine. In addition they also add fluoride. Like if it was not enough is rated as medium hard water. Noticing a lot of white crystal forming on the media from evaporation. Any thoughts as to if I should look at waiting for some rain or should I tackle processing the water? I heard vitamin c and airing it, any specifics as to where to get it and how to introduce it? Any other steps needed? Thanks...

Pershing

Here is some good information for you. Check it out.

http://www.dancingwithwater.com/article ... rom-water/

OK, read the article, now Im even more concerned

The internet is great for research - not.

We all tend to read and consume the stuff that we already believe, discarding stuff that does not confirm our beliefs. The internet allows us to find the stuff we want to believe, which may or may not be what is the currently held best scientifically determined 'truth'.

Where an idea comes out that is contrary to the current scientific truth it is generally rigorously tested, and sometimes the idea becomes the new scientific truth. We in Western Australia had an example of that with some scientists who believed that stomach ulcers were caused by bacteria and not stress. To prove it one of them consumed the believed bacteria and got themselves a stomach ulcer, then cured it by taking antibiotics. Not believed at first their experiments were tried around the world and found to be repeatable. Now the medical world says stomach ulcers are caused by bacteria. The idea that fluoridation of water supplies causes more problems than it causes has been around for a long time. It has not been found to have sufficient basis in scientific research to establish it as mainstream science. Fluoridation of water to improve the dental hygiene of people who drink it (lower decay and associated problems) is though well established. Should somebody prove scientifically otherwise they would be up for a Nobel prize (as did our scientists). I am not saying it is not true, but there is insufficient scientific evidence to overturn the scientific evidence that fluoridation is beneficial.

Earthbound has been using fluoridated tap water here in Perth for almost 10 years in his system and has seen no issues. Just look at him. Well maybe he is not a good example.

White crystals. Table salt (NaCl)

Should you be really concerned re chloramine, yes ascorbic acid (vitamin C) will react with it, but so will the bacteria in your system. In a battle between a set amount of chloramine and bacteria, my money is with the bacteria.

So long as you don't do too major a water top up (upto 50% addition) you will not have an issue with chloramine, chlorine or fluoride. pH now there is a different issue.

Thanks Jeff, I have to fill the system completelly so will let it air out and use some vitamin c. Should I test the water to see what minerals are making it medium hard? Seems to me it would help determine needs of the system. But part of me also thinks this is the same water fish swim in the lakes, cant be that hard, can it?

Hmmm. Should you test the water? Understand that the following opinion has very little scientific knowledge behind it. I am sure Rupert or Ron will correct me if it is too far from the truth.

If you are somebody who requires intimate knowledge of what is happening then you should definitely test the water (or contact your water supplier to get a 'typical analysis' of the water, hopefully it will not be "commercial, in confidence"). You need this to ensure that your system will run well.

If you are more like me (lazy). Nah. Don't get stuck with 'paralysis by analysis'.

Anybody near Pershing who just uses the water and can provide their experiences?

I think if you can drink it it should be OK for your system (given a short while to eliminate the chlorine/chloramine)

Numerous videos and tutorials are available on internet about water quality. You may go and search to learn about water quality anytime. You can learn better from video presentations.

Thanks, just wanted the forum perspective to see if I was overreacting or truly had a problem. At this time im not sure what to do. I was going to start filrering my dirt garden's water so maybe I can use that and treat it with time and vit-c if not enough rain water...

I suspect that a poll on this forum will show that more fish gets killed by people trying to adjust water quality with various concoctions rather than taking a laissez-faire approach.

Our tap water in Perth is also dozed with chlorine and chloramines. Most people in Perth use it "as is" to top up lost water in their aquaponics systems with no ill effects.

I keep fancy tropical fish and have used Perth tap water untreated for many years as top up.

If you really are worried - i suggest you let it age in a separate tank for a few days/weeks before adding to your system.

Chloramines raise the ammonia levels, so adding such to the FT can cause a spike. Whether or not this harms the fish depends on how close to the line you run your system - the more built-in resilience you have, the better. Chloramines do not easily break down with time or sunlight like chlorine does, that's WHY they put it in the water.

There is plenty of research about hazards of fluoride, it just doesn't get mainstream exposure.

Research it for yourself rather than just accepting 'The Science is in' attitudes - it isn't in by a long stretch and they are finding more things wrong with it.

To give a starter, did you know fluoride actually can't do what is claimed for it in teeth of anyone over about 12?

Or that almost all the evidence about the benefits is attached to brushing your teeth? (i.e. they can't separate out the benefits of fluoride as distinct from the benefits of brushing)

Did you know they use the topical application results (brushing your teeth where you ingest very little of it - see previous point for how real the results might be) to justify making people DRINK it?

Please, go and read up on it. Don't be pacified by statements about how the benefits are established or the negatives haven't been proven. The benefits haven't and the negatives have.

Here's another to look up - comparisons between Montreal and Toronto. Toronto has a history of fluoridation and Montreal has never had it. Guess who is better off for dental problems? (as well as a host of bone issues)

There is even research to show fluoride builds up in your fish as well as effects of it on them.

The water used in all my systems for the last 7 years... has all been fluoridated....

I can assure you that there is nothing wrong with my fishes teeth...

Adding to this post, even though last comment was in '06. Didn't want to start a new topic since this is related.

Relatively new to the forums and I don't have a system yet, still planning and saving funds.

I plan on using the tap water for the fish tank and my water utility adds chlorine and fluoride, as do most utilities. I am planning on using it as is, but to fill the tank initially I was thinking about using water from a local Artesian well that the water district provides at no charge for those who prefer untreated water. Here is a link to a study done on that water: http://www.alderwoodwater.com/Site/Cont ... _06-14.pdf

My thoughts are that it might help the system cycle quicker, because it would have some helpful bacteria and such. I am no scientist either, so I could be way off. I would however have to go there and bottle it myself, which would be a large pain in the butt and many trips and many empty gallon milk containers... So, maybe if the benefit wouldn't really be as large as I think, it might not be worth hauling all those containers.

Thoughts?

The well water will have no effect on the cycling process.

Nitrification still needs to occur and a surface area bacteria colony established, an ammonia source is required and nitrifying bacteria that convert nitrite to nitrate are inhibited by ammonia so they wont begin processing nitrites until the ammonia has all been converted. The only thing that speeds up cycling time is things like temp etc... or a very expensive liquid form of benificial bacteria which is not found on the shelf of your average aquaria shop.

If anything you could be risking the introduction of parasites or waterborne disease.