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| nutrients database http://byap.backyardmagazines.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4645 |
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| Author: | hygicell [ Dec 19th, '08, 04:33 ] |
| Post subject: | nutrients database |
I am gathering nutrient tables for vegetables, fish and fish feed formulas (contents and needs) and will try to put them in an excel file for further study Most of what I found so far is in .pdf files and in dutch however, translating vegetable/fish/nutrient names would not be an enormous challenge but I would like some help with this and with gathering the info an easy to use .pdf unlocking freeware, so you can paste and copy from the .pdf to Excel can be found here: http://lifehacker.com/396534/freeware-p ... -passwords just install the program, then drag and drop the file you want to unlock to the icon on your desktop, wait a while, and an unlocked version is created in the same directory this will allow you to copy and paste from .pdf to Excel please post here all info on this subject that comes your way preferably in Excel format I will try to assemble them and add columns for translation in different languages please advise me on what other columns should be added for conversions here is a start Excel file: Attachment: WARNING ! don't download this spreadsheet unless you have checked further in this thread if there isn't a newer version and regularly come back to look for updates. there are already a lot of data in the file but more are missing sure would appreciate some help frank |
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| Author: | RupertofOZ [ Dec 19th, '08, 07:48 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: nutrients database |
May need to be a little careful "copying" feed tables and especially "nutritional" data for aquaculture feeds... Most are copyrighted/trademarked... and would at least require a citation of the source. |
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| Author: | RupertofOZ [ Dec 19th, '08, 07:58 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: nutrients database |
Might be better to split the database into plants and fish... Not only do differing species of fish and crustacea have different nutritional requirements, but usually different requirements for various stages of growth |
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| Author: | KudaPucat [ Dec 19th, '08, 08:38 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: nutrients database |
hygicell wrote: WARNING ! don't download this spreadsheet unless you have checked further in this thread if there isn't a newer version and regularly come back to look for updates. there are already a lot of data in the file but more are missing sure would appreciate some help frank Frank... have a look at http://code.google.com/hosting/ here you could upload your xls and auxiliary files, as part of a 'project' This way, you could add a link (or have the mods mod your first post to include a link) to the project, that is continually updated. It also allows for multiple ppl to do multiple concurrent changes (I think) provided that they have password access. I sort of thought it was ideal for your purposes. |
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| Author: | hygicell [ Dec 19th, '08, 09:15 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: nutrients database |
RupertofOZ wrote: May need to be a little careful "copying" feed tables and especially "nutritional" data for aquaculture feeds... Most are copyrighted/trademarked... and would at least require a citation of the source. I absolutely agree, the authors deserve recognition and I normally do so it is good of you to point this out will remedy to it frank |
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| Author: | hygicell [ Dec 19th, '08, 09:23 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: nutrients database |
RupertofOZ wrote: Might be better to split the database into plants and fish... Not only do differing species of fish and crustacea have different nutritional requirements, but usually different requirements for various stages of growth the database is already split into plants and fish and even much more: needs versus contents see the different tabs stages of growth can be dealt with in one or several new pages in the same worksheet, where calculations can be done according to circumstances using the data collected splitting it all up in different spreadsheets would make that much more complex but maybe there will be no other choice my knowledge of Excel is good, but limited frank |
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| Author: | hygicell [ Dec 19th, '08, 09:29 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: nutrients database |
KudaPucat wrote: Frank... have a look at http://code.google.com/hosting/ here you could upload your xls and auxiliary files, as part of a 'project' This way, you could add a link (or have the mods mod your first post to include a link) to the project, that is continually updated. It also allows for multiple ppl to do multiple concurrent changes (I think) provided that they have password access. I sort of thought it was ideal for your purposes. thanks for the tip, Kuda but I am a bit reticent of letting things out of my hands maybe the first signs of a growing conservatism which I so combat? after all, I am 57 and there probably is no escape fate is coming my way I would love it if you would introduce and assist me to this new technology frank |
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| Author: | Dufflight [ Dec 19th, '08, 18:32 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: nutrients database |
Not to knock what your doing. But why? The amount of work needed to gather the information and at the end of the day will it be useful. Most of us would not go through a big list when we can just add a little seasol and trace to the system. I do see it being useful for a commercial system but they will work it out themselves. |
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| Author: | Outbackozzie [ Dec 19th, '08, 19:25 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: nutrients database |
It is the sort of thing a very large scale system would find helpfull. You can send off tissue samples as well. |
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| Author: | Jensilaedi [ Dec 19th, '08, 19:49 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: nutrients database |
I love this idea but it's a little too specific, I mean too "fine." I realise that I may not be quite in the target audience, I just wanted to say that I only need to know if the plant needs a high or low nitrate yield, more sun or more water.. etc not the specific elementary needs... there's a lot of books and websites already out there doing that sort of thing.. but conventional gardeners don't come up with information on how much nitrate the tommies will take in a AP system. And then there's the problem of season... not sure how you'd make it differential. Do you mind if I make an adaptation of your idea and make a website version of it? I like the concept a lot, but what you made isn't a database - it's a spreadsheet! |
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| Author: | RupertofOZ [ Dec 19th, '08, 21:03 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: nutrients database |
There have been very few qualified scientific trials and experiments done with regard to aquaponics. No doubt Dr Rococy at UVI has some data, also Wilson Lennard may have some empirical data regarding nitrate uptake.... both regarding basil and perhaps watercress... But while data may exist in general terms as to a range of nutrient requirements for specific plants, particularly in hydroponics.... it's usually presented in terms of actual "element" uptake.... i.e nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, trace elements etc... Don't know if it correlates directly to "nitrates" as such, as in aquaponics.... And indeed, while it has been postulated that part of the success of aquaponics is the various trace element availability from unused feed and waste... AFAIK, it has never been qualified... Some veges, and particularly fruits are known to be heavier "nitrogen" users.. such as tomatos... cucumbers, peppers etc ... in fact fruits in general... But the success of such fruits also depends markedly on potassium and trace elements... I think the hydroponic literature would be the best place to look for such information... |
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| Author: | RupertofOZ [ Dec 19th, '08, 21:05 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: nutrients database |
Here's a very basic guide... I've got a much more detailed one bookmarked somewhere... http://www.backyardgardener.com/veg/nurt1.html |
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| Author: | Jensilaedi [ Dec 19th, '08, 21:17 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: nutrients database |
wicked!!! that link is exactly what I was thinking of! but I still believe that those plants have a different uptake in different climates. and again.. this is a spreadsheet, not a database !! and it'd be good if we could have a lot more than those listed on that site...! |
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| Author: | hygicell [ Dec 19th, '08, 21:26 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: nutrients database |
Dufflight wrote: Not to knock what your doing. But why? The amount of work needed to gather the information and at the end of the day will it be useful. Most of us would not go through a big list when we can just add a little seasol and trace to the system. I do see it being useful for a commercial system but they will work it out themselves. "meten is weten" we say in Dutch which translates to: "to measure is to know" my pump efficiency calculator has shown some surprisingly hard realities which is interesting information even for small scale applications I simply prefer knowledge to guesswork or at least knowledge as a guide to guesswork feel free to help (us all) to knowledge I seem to be not the only one interested frank |
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| Author: | hygicell [ Dec 19th, '08, 21:54 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: nutrients database |
Jensilaedi wrote: I love this idea but it's a little too specific, I mean too "fine." I realise that I may not be quite in the target audience, I just wanted to say that I only need to know if the plant needs a high or low nitrate yield, more sun or more water.. etc not the specific elementary needs... there's a lot of books and websites already out there doing that sort of thing.. but conventional gardeners don't come up with information on how much nitrate the tommies will take in a AP system. And then there's the problem of season... not sure how you'd make it differential. Do you mind if I make an adaptation of your idea and make a website version of it? I like the concept a lot, but what you made isn't a database - it's a spreadsheet! thanks for a positive approach, Jensilaedi and for your enthousiasm not that it is important, but can't a spreadsheet filled with data be considered a database? old Shakespeare comes at my defense: what's in a name? a strawberry would by any other name taste as sweet the advantage of putting the data in a spreadsheet is that calculations can be performed on them like seasons, growth rates, etc... the aim is to guide the guesswork Quote: Do you mind if I make an adaptation of your idea and make a website version of it? by all means, don't let me stop you !!! I own some dormant aquaponics websites: Europe (English) http://www.aquaponics.eu Europe (French) http://www.aquaponique.eu Belgium (Dutch) http://www.aquaponics.be Belgium (French) http://www.aquaponique.be Germany http://www.aquaponics.de I have paid the rights to them for three years now to safeguard the reputation of AP and would surely appreciate help and advice on what to post on them also on compiling guidelines to what is acceptable to publish there i.e. commercial postings should be possible if they comply with certain guiderules as for target audience, I would like to keep that as wide as possible frank |
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