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A warning
http://byap.backyardmagazines.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=928		 Page 1 of 5
Author:  monya [ Dec 13th, '06, 07:48 ]
Post subject:  A warning
A few weeks ago, I changed over to a timer instead of a float on my fish tank pump, because I had trouble setting it up. In hindsight, the problems started when the syphon between my two tanks became blocked, and I didn't really realise. Anyway, it's a decision that could have cost me the lot.

This morning I went out to feed the fish to find a few inches of water in the vat, and 10 inches or so in the plly tank and a very wet ground around my sump.

The sump pump has been playing up for a few weeks and the new one arrived on Monday. The courier came last friday, but I missed him and had I not missed him, the new pump would have already been installed and I wouldn't have had this mishap. Instead I was waiting until Thursday when I could get Heather to install the new pump for me. Bigmistake.

The pump failed overnight (was seemingly working again sort of this morning), first I thought there was a blackout, but all the clocks were fine. Anyway, because I was on a timer, not a float, the system kept cycling while not getting water retuened to the fish :shock: :evil:

Also, I have lost about 2000 litres of beautiful water :cry: just when everything was growing fantastically and greening right up. :cry:

So the lessons I have learned are:

The sum should really be able to handle at least one full flood cycle of the system. In my case, it takes around 800 litres to fill the growbeds, so I really should have a 1000 litre sump. Then, if the pump fails, it gives you a chance to get things organised before losing all that water.

Secondly, if using a timer, some sort of device needs to be installed to prevent a second cycle running if the water doesn't return to the fish. Or at least some sort of warning buzzer activated if the water level in the sump gets too high. I am hopeless at this kind of thing, so if anyone has any ideas, please bring it on! :D

Finally, if your pump seems a bit dodgy, replace it before it fails. Don't leave it to chance. I didn't want to be a pain and make a warranty claim on the pump, but as soon as it looks not right, do something about it. Your fish are relying on you!!!!

Anyway, I have not suffered any fish losses and the new pump has been installed, and I am going to ditch the timer, and reinstall the float switch once I get the tanks full again.

Just thought I would give everyone a heads up on this potential problem. Obviously, getting rid of the sump altogether will be the ultimate solution, and one which I will employ on future system (in planning LOL)

Stu
Author:  earthbound [ Dec 13th, '06, 07:58 ]
Post subject: 
Phew..... glad there was no major fish kill Stu.... :)
Author:  monya [ Dec 13th, '06, 08:05 ]
Post subject: 
and I've just been out there and fed them- hungry as! I know Les said that once it is set up AP can be boring, but I'm yet to experience that sense of security that may lead to boredom! LOL
Author:  michael_Ferrini [ Dec 13th, '06, 08:09 ]
Post subject: 
Stu sorry to hear of your loss.... of water that is. This is why my main pump resides in the sump and the sump is the sum of all growbed capacity. My fish tank always stays full, my sump always stays full, in the event of pump failure the only thing that suffers is plant watering and aireation cycling.
Author:  monya [ Dec 13th, '06, 08:10 ]
Post subject: 
Yeah, you've got it sussed.
Author:  michael_Ferrini [ Dec 13th, '06, 08:13 ]
Post subject: 
yea but what I gained in security I lost in growbed space. the sump tank occupies about 6 ft diameter in floor space... my next system it will reside in the ground under the growbeds.... at the lowest point of the system...naturally
Author:  b2barker [ Dec 13th, '06, 08:22 ]
Post subject:  Re: A warning
monya wrote:
...Secondly, if using a timer, some sort of device needs to be installed to prevent a second cycle running if the water doesn't return to the fish. Or at least some sort of warning buzzer activated if the water level in the sump gets too high. I am hopeless at this kind of thing, so if anyone has any ideas, please bring it on! :D ...

Seems to me :
1) A hi level float switch in the sump, that cut's out the pump. Bugger the warning sound, just stop the pumping
2) A low level float switch in the fish tank, that cut's out the pump.
Either of these would prevent mass water loss, but the latter also protects against a grow bed or pipe breakage where the water isn't making it back to the sump
Author:  monya [ Dec 13th, '06, 08:25 ]
Post subject: 
good idea. Cou can get a float that turn pump off when the water level rises to the high point can't you? But can you plug one pump into 2 floats?
Author:  michael_Ferrini [ Dec 13th, '06, 08:31 ]
Post subject: 
You can get a piggyback float...yes. That would be two float switches on one pump. Float switches do fail though. Best bet is sump being albe to handle volume. You can use sump as extra fish tank for fry or fingerlings...:)
Author:  b2barker [ Dec 13th, '06, 08:31 ]
Post subject: 
So your pump out of the fish tank all ready has a low level float cutout? If this is right the easiest would be to extend the cable on it so it cuts out at a higher level.
Yes you can just series up two floats so that if either of them acts it stops one pump. A bit of a hazard if it's 240VAC through the float though
Author:  GotFish? [ Dec 13th, '06, 08:47 ]
Post subject: 
Glad your fish are all well Mon. Thanks for sharing that little mishap.
Author:  monya [ Dec 13th, '06, 09:53 ]
Post subject: 
B2B, as it is ATM, no low cut off on the pump in the fish tank until it gets right down ie the tank is 1m deep, pump sits on the bottom. Previosly, I was using a piggy back float which I am going to reinstall today
Author:  dryland dweller [ Dec 13th, '06, 10:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: A warning
Monya the best cheap way out would be to put the pump up so that a failure will only drain your fishpool by half. I plan to put a step in the tank I'm concreting shortly so if a failure occurs it can't mt the fish tank before I find out about it. Having had a yacht on a mooring I can vouch for float failure ....if I had not been going out that morning I would have had a submarine instead of sailboat. :D
Pete
Author:  monya [ Dec 13th, '06, 10:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: A warning
yeah, a really good suggestion Pete. The reason I put this thread on was the power of the collective BYA minds- many solutions to one problem. Brainstorming is good! :D
Author:  EllKayBee [ Dec 13th, '06, 10:40 ]
Post subject: 
Sad to hear Mon, fortunately it is only a minor setback - it got me reviewing my plans for fail safe points tho:

1) fish tank to be full at all times (ala the MF way)
2) overflow pipe fitted to GBs in case an actuator fails (in the wrong position)
3) RESERVED - for when I remember what point 3 is :scratch:
4) still working on power fail contingency plan
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