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| Diatomite and its effect on PH http://byap.backyardmagazines.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6105 |
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| Author: | krimann [ Sep 6th, '09, 20:48 ] | ||||
| Post subject: | Diatomite and its effect on PH | ||||
Hi All, After posting my latest system http://backyardaquaponics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=6090 a question arose regarding the effect diatomite may have on my FT water PH. So I did a very quick test on Saturday to see if I couldn't get some leaching into water and then test that waters PH. In issue 3 of BYAP magazine diatomite is road tested with other mediums to see if any one medium proved better for growth rates than another, the description stated that it had a low PH of 5.5. My TDS meter is probably not reading very true, I use it in part of a process to make colloidal silver and it hasn't been calibrated since purchase. As for the PH readings I offer an explanation at the end. Here's my method for the experiment and it is probably flawed. Test Moores Ultrapure Water for TDS/PPM to ensure purity. This water was used throughout the test and a fresh sample was used as a control for every test. Fill 1 cup with ½ cup diatomite and fill to brim with water. Agitate gently. Allow to stand for 20 minutes. Fill 1 cup with ½ cup crushed diatomite and fill to brim with water. Agitate gently. Allow to stand for 20 minutes. Then test samples. (what's interesting here is that the un-crushed diatomite reacted immediately on having water poured onto it, it fizzed like a carbonated drink for about a minute) Test EC/PPM of sample water, along with crushed and uncrushed diatomite water. All test tubes were washed rinsed and shaken twice using the pure water for every test. Tests include PH, High PH, Hardness and Copper contamination. In every test photo I've shown, water (PW), whole diatomite (WD) then crushed diatomite (CD) samples. Results are as follows. PH = PW: 6.2 approx WD: 6.0 approx CD: Inconclusive/unreadable High PH = PW: Not on scale? WD: Not on scale? CD: Inconclusive/unreadable General Hardness = PW: from 0 to < 17.9ppm GH WD: < 35.8ppm GH CD: Inconclusive/unreadable Carbonate Hardness = PW: 0° to < 1° DKH WD: < 2° DKH CD: Inconclusive/unreadable Copper contamination = PW: 0 WD: 0 CD: Inconclusive/unreadable So there you have it friends, in conclusion my results are a little ambiguous and mostly inconclusive. The poor outcome is basically the result of not having accurate equipment. Discolouration of sample water is always going to make using litmus paper or indicator fluid a clumsy and inaccurate affair. This is a problem we come across fairly often at the shop. Hydroponic nutrients especially two part A&B mixes, are commonly dyed different colours to one another, like red and purple. So as you can imagine trying to sample PH is going to be nigh on impossible using the hobbyist methods above. I think I'll invest in a multi purpose electronic PH and PPM meter as soon as possible. They're easy to use, really accurate (as long as you keep them calibrated) and they give a true result instantly on an LCD display. Cheers, Kri.
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| Author: | krimann [ Sep 6th, '09, 20:51 ] | ||||
| Post subject: | Re: Diatomite and its effect on PH | ||||
TDS/PPM reading
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| Author: | krimann [ Sep 6th, '09, 20:53 ] | ||||
| Post subject: | Re: Diatomite and its effect on PH | ||||
PH, High PH, and Copper contaminants
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| Author: | krimann [ Sep 6th, '09, 20:55 ] | |||
| Post subject: | Re: Diatomite and its effect on PH | |||
Hardness tests.
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| Author: | RupertofOZ [ Sep 6th, '09, 21:19 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Diatomite and its effect on PH |
Kriman... did you source from "Maidenwell"???.... There's been discussion about the use of this product before... see "The Hopefuls" thread... viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1959&p=154024&hilit=maidenwell#p154024 And on the supplier site it was listed as potentially moving pH to 5.8.... site seems to be down or hijacked at the moment... The fact that you're registering pH 6.0 in your sample... combined with the acidifying nature of aquaponics tends to suggest that the suggested pH of 5.8 is indeed probable... And the experience of "The Hopefuls" utilising "maidenwell" as a media confirms this... Maidenwell is now quite commonly used as a hydroponics seedling raising medium... Not sure what you were trying to measure with your TDS meter... or even the EC meter... Just a nudge... many of the values applicable in hydroponics... in terms of EC don't translate to aquaponics... and your TDS readings in an aquaponic system could be off the scale in comparison to hydroponics... just by the nature of the fish stocked and feed given... |
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| Author: | RupertofOZ [ Sep 6th, '09, 21:27 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Diatomite and its effect on PH |
Here's the results of tests Murray & Fiona (The Hopefuls) carried out on their "Maidenwell"... viewtopic.php?p=98871#p98871 Looking through my notes... the pH figure of 5.7/5.8 was actually given to me during discussions with Col at Maidenwell... although he couldn't really explain why it posted pH at that level... he was adamant that it was the case... and experience has shown that to be so.. |
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| Author: | TCLynx [ Sep 6th, '09, 22:30 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Diatomite and its effect on PH |
Agree that the drop tests are generally best for AP. Granted, after adding something that colors your water, some tests become hard to read because of the color. The TDS meter. About the only use I've had for my EC meter in Aquaponics, has been to help estimate salt levels when I need to add salt for fish health. When adding salt for fish health, the EC meter will be off the chart and if you had a reading like that with hydroponics nutrient, all your plants would be fertilizer burned. However, 3 ppt of sea salt into an AP system will probably not affect most plants (strawberries and a few other sensitive plants might be at risk here.) So, apparently you will want to keep a good stock of shell grit or something on hand to buffer your pH to counteract the pH going way too low. Thanks for running the tests!!!! |
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| Author: | krimann [ Sep 7th, '09, 07:02 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Diatomite and its effect on PH |
Thanks guys, I'm trying to contribute some valid emperical evidence along the way. I'll read those links this arvo, i'm in a mad rush, but for now... The EC/TDS meter doesn't play a major role in AP but like TcLynx says it's very usefull for knowing exact salt levels when dosing etc. The reason for using it in this test was firstly to show that the water used was uncontaminated, and then to show the contamination levels of the diatomite becoming suspended in the water after agitation over the 20 minute waiting period... that and i thought maybe there might be someone on the forum that could draw some kind of information from the EC/TDS reading and the information from the hardness tests, or perhaps notice something that doesn't add up. I still back electronic PH meters all the way for aquaponics. ( when I do buy one I might as well make it multifunction anyway if I've already committed to spending over $100 on quality testing equipment Not sure about the brand name Maidenwell, but I'll ask the fellas at work today about the supplier, we are only doing selective trials with it at present, not sure how our customer base will respond to it, or whether we need to bother dividing more shelf space to keep it in stock. Anyhow, gotta get to work. I appreciate your interest in this guys. Talk later. Kri. |
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| Author: | RupertofOZ [ Sep 7th, '09, 09:44 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Diatomite and its effect on PH |
Nothing wrong with the media as such, just highlighting the potential problems down the track.... i.e the need to buffer your system extensively, just to keep it around pH 6.4... Nor was there any criticism intended regarding the test results you posted... all valid information... The best way to measure salt in aquaponics is with the use of a salinity refractometer... you can get them on eBay for about $30... EC readings in aquaponics can vary enormously... and usually exceed what you may find in straight hydroponics.... there was some data posted recently on the subject... Looking for an electronic multifunction meter.... aint we all.... But you can expect to pay around $300-$500 minimum, for anything worthwhile and accurate... and finding one that will do pH, DO, ammonia and water temperature.... you could be looking at something like the Hariba for about $1200... |
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| Author: | krimann [ Sep 7th, '09, 12:14 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Diatomite and its effect on PH |
Hey Rupe, I'm not gunna go that flash on a meter lol! We have PH meters here at the shop starting at $149.95 and multifunctions starting at about $250 so I'll put some coin aside for one of those. There was no offence taken, I've not read anything negative into your posts, all good bro! |
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| Author: | faye [ Sep 7th, '09, 13:12 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Diatomite and its effect on PH |
I understand that diatomite is popular amongst growers of Cymbidium orchids also. |
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| Author: | TCLynx [ Sep 7th, '09, 20:58 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Diatomite and its effect on PH |
Drawback with using an EC meter to estimate salinity is that the EC meters often only measure up to about the max that you might want to bring Hydroponic solution to. When you go using it to measure something different, like salt to 3 ppt, it takes diluting the samples a measured amount and then mulitiplying the results to even measure up to 3 ppt. At least that is the case with my meter. But I already have it and usually don't keep too much salt in since I have catfish so I'll make do. |
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