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No-hole overflows / no-hole siphons / water bridges
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Author:  swanberg [ May 5th, '08, 08:18 ]
Post subject:  No-hole overflows / no-hole siphons / water bridges
I am really interested in using the no-hole overflow (siphon) technique, because I have two glass fishtanks I want to use.

I know of the thread "Myles' Small System" (viewtopic.php?f=18&t=3057)

and Savage_Goldfish briefly contemplates it here: http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=2856

but I just can't get my brain around this concept. To use Myles' picture (direct linked, I didn't steal it =) )

Image

how does the water stay in the pipe to keep the siphon primed? is the atmospheric pressure on the top of the tanks enough to keep a smaller amount of water above the tank water level? But in S_G's topic,

scottie wrote:
My only advice is to make your pipe/water bridge that is connecting your 2 tanks MUCH fatter than you think is necessary. I have a short (<50cm) 50mm PVC pipe connecting 2 of my waterbeds (aka bathtubs) together & it cannot handle ~25L/min.

50mm pipe seemed ample when I plumbed it as the supply from my 125L/min pump is 35mm PVC pipe in places (bottleneck) & only one-fifth of that (ie. ~25L/min) goes to the waterbeds.


In my brain, a water bridge wouldn't work at those diameters. :shock:

I would like to sink two mason jars into the bottom of my tanks, and connect them with a tube. Have one tank be the FT, and the other the sump (and duckweed). I'd love for the system to be CHIF-PIST, too. Am I dreaming?

:: wanders off to play with google sketchup"
Author:  Food&Fish [ May 5th, '08, 08:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: No-hole overflows / no-hole siphons / water bridges
Ebay sells diamond tip circle cutters and they work a treat about $20.00
Author:  swanberg [ May 5th, '08, 10:31 ]
Post subject:  Re: No-hole overflows / no-hole siphons / water bridges
Food&Fish wrote:
Ebay sells diamond tip circle cutters and they work a treat about $20.00

No, seriously, I don't want to cut the glass. I want this to be as flexible as possible, as I will certainly have to move it.

I want to do something like this:

Image
Where the lefthand tank is the fish tank, the right hand tank is the duckpond/sump. The pump moves the water from the sump to the growbeds. The beds drain via standpipe back into the fishtank. The fishtank water level stays pretty constant, pushing the overflow into the sump. I guess the fishtank would have to be raised a bit.

Or, if I wanted to do this, would I need a pump to move the water from fish tank to sump tank?

(still fairly new at sketchup... :( )
Author:  ElizabethGreene [ May 5th, '08, 11:32 ]
Post subject:  Re: No-hole overflows / no-hole siphons / water bridges
Hi!

Referring to the first sketch in this thread, I cannot see a hole-less auto siphon running with the current design. Some mechanism to break the siphon and keep it from emptying the "jar" on the left will be required.

If all you want to do is keep the same water level between the two tanks, the second design will work. One caveat, you need to suck/siphon/something the air out of the top of the pipe between the tops. I have a friend that has tubes like this connecting his aquariums. It is really cool to see the fish stampede through the "hamster tubes" to the whichever tank he decides to feed first.

In this scenario, the jars serve to keep the hamster tubes primed if the water level falls too low in the tanks.

Your second question, should you relocate the pump and/or returns, is a little harder. If you pump from one tank and return to the other, then you will pump most of the water out of the system if the hamster tube fails. If you pump and return to the same tank, then you have issues with circulation and low DO in the "spare" tank. Some people use a CHIFT PIST system to overcome this.

A CHIFT PIST system returns water from the growbed to the fishtank. Water overflows the fishtank to the sump. The Pump is in the sump, and pushes the water up to the growbeds. In this system, If any component fails, you still have water in the fish tank. The first sketch in this thread would work as a hole-less overflow, and the standpipe is optional. I _think_ that is what the original poster is using it as, based on the photo.

If you go with a CHIFT PIST system and want to stock your sump tank, elevate or float-switch the pump so it can't pump all the water out of the tank if the hamster tube fails.

-Ellie

... I think I've lurked too much. LOL.

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Author:  EllKayBee [ May 5th, '08, 16:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: No-hole overflows / no-hole siphons / water bridges
Elizabeth, you have your gender shown as male, is this correct ???
Author:  TimC [ May 5th, '08, 17:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: No-hole overflows / no-hole siphons / water bridges
I have done this using an Acrylic Hang-on box which acts as a skimmer/syphon.

Here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2779&hilit=+overflow+box+ THIRD POST FROM THE BOTTOM

This one handles about 3,000LPH. I have made some which could handle in excess of 10,000L.
Author:  swanberg [ May 5th, '08, 20:12 ]
Post subject:  Re: No-hole overflows / no-hole siphons / water bridges
ElizabethGreene wrote:
I have a friend that has tubes like this connecting his aquariums.

That's really cool. What material does he use for the hamster tubes?

TimC, NicholasC, do you have pics of your overflow box from other angles? I'd love to see what is happening in the far right back, where the white pipe flows downwards, as well as the white mesh on the left side. What is that for?

Also, how do you prime these setups?

Image
(http://backyardaquaponics.com/forum/vie ... f=8&t=2779)
Author:  Dave Donley [ May 5th, '08, 21:46 ]
Post subject:  Re: No-hole overflows / no-hole siphons / water bridges
Hi Karen:
Make one from elbows, that's what I did for my 2 aquarium AP demo system, completed this weekend. See this post for my take on a two aquarium system:

viewtopic.php?p=125119#p125119

I transplanted a couple peppers and a tomato plant from WalMart yesterday into this - they have perked up quite nicely. I also planted a bunch of grass seed, hoping that it will come up before Saturday to add more interest.

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Author:  TimC [ May 5th, '08, 23:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: No-hole overflows / no-hole siphons / water bridges
Will get those pics tomorrow for you..

The white mesh was put in temporarily to filter out some larger particles...

Two ways to prime them: 1. Submerge the whole unit into water and move around to get rid of all the air in it... then gently ift it back up into place. 2. Push a it of air hose up
into the top part. Pour in some water on either side and suck the air out.

The white pipe is just a 3/4" female to 3/4" male threaded coupler. I have put a rubber gasket in between to stop leaks. The top of the coupler is about 1 cm above the top of the syphon opening. In future revisions I have made the bucket opening at the rear of the overflow box much higher to prevent overflows after priming...

DD, I used your design the very first time I had my inside tank setup. The problem I had was air bubble accumulating in the top where the siphon occurs. One day without warning the siphon
broke. Luckily I was cleaning the tank at the time. I have found (for permanent aquariums) the acrylic ones allow you to see what is going on. I can suck out any air bubbles as they build up with a bit of air hose.
Author:  ElizabethGreene [ May 7th, '08, 01:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: No-hole overflows / no-hole siphons / water bridges
EllKayBee wrote:
Elizabeth, you have your gender shown as male, is this correct ???


Fixed that, Thanks!

-ellie
Author:  DownRiverDan [ May 7th, '08, 17:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: No-hole overflows / no-hole siphons / water bridges
TimC wrote:

The problem I had was air bubble accumulating in the top where the siphon occurs. One day without warning the siphon broke. Luckily I was cleaning the tank at the time. I have found (for permanent aquariums) the acrylic ones allow you to see what is going on. I can suck out any air bubbles as they build up with a bit of air hose.


I had my syphon break once also while I was standing there watching as the tank overflowed.
I solved the problem by drilling a hole in the top of one of the elbows and gluing in a short piece of small rigid tubing then attached a small airline hose. That hose I hang slightly above the high water level and the open end goes back into one of the tanks to keep air from entering. I simply look at the airline see some accumulated air and remove the open end of hose letting some air out as it fills with water then put the open end back under water.
Author:  Sleepe [ May 7th, '08, 20:38 ]
Post subject:  Re: No-hole overflows / no-hole siphons / water bridges
Neat and simple. Nice one DRD :)
Author:  Outbackozzie [ May 7th, '08, 20:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: No-hole overflows / no-hole siphons / water bridges
http://www.notcot.com/archives/2006/10/fishloft.php
Author:  swanberg [ May 15th, '08, 10:19 ]
Post subject:  Re: No-hole overflows / no-hole siphons / water bridges
This is awesome, guys. I'll set up one of DD's elbow bridges no prob. :cheers:

I played around with the idea tonight between two tanks, and have come to the conclusion that I suck :ahem: at creating siphons with lung power. :mrgreen: Blowing the air bubbles out with the garden hose works much better!

I'm sorry I didn't get back to this thread, I forgot all about it. :|
Author:  Dave Donley [ May 15th, '08, 22:11 ]
Post subject:  Re: No-hole overflows / no-hole siphons / water bridges
Hi Karen:
I take the bridge out and dunk it in the fish tank, and rotate it around so that the bubbles can come out, with one or other of the outlets higher than the rest of the bridge. Since the comments about air bubble locks I have been doing this almost daily.
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