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Start cycling... strange values
http://byap.backyardmagazines.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=30529		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  Ricardo_G [ Jun 4th, '19, 00:28 ]
Post subject:  Start cycling... strange values
Hello!

Im from Portugal and I star cycling mys system. I add for 4 days half capsule of amonia 25% pure. After this time I measure amonia with "Sera" amonia test and I have 10mg value. I think this is the same that 10 ppm. My PH is about 6.6 and the nitrates test give 25mg/l.

Is this normal? Isnt amonia very strong? Thks for helping!
Author:  Ricardo_G [ Jun 4th, '19, 04:19 ]
Post subject:  Re: Start cycling... strange values
just dont know if I must keep puting amonia or if I must stop...
Author:  montecarlo [ Jun 4th, '19, 04:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: Start cycling... strange values
I would definitely stop, but you should wait for someone else’s advice. I’m the idiot who put all my ammonia in at once and totally screwed everything up, so take my advice for what it is worth
Author:  Terra [ Jun 4th, '19, 08:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Start cycling... strange values
Reduce your Ammonia levels back to 1 to 2ppm by doing water changes

Too much ammonia will actually kill bacteria and slow the cycling process down

Also you will get a massive nitrite spike which will likely kill fish if you have them

This is one of the hardest things for new to aquaponic enthusiasts PATIENCE wait and wait

Then wait for your nitrite and ammonia levels to drop to zero and your nitrate readings too appear

Then you can add a bit more ammonia or fish

So get some plants in post some photos and tell us about your system
Author:  Mr Damage [ Jun 4th, '19, 11:47 ]
Post subject:  Re: Start cycling... strange values
Terra wrote:
Reduce your Ammonia levels back to 1 to 2ppm by doing water changes
+1 for what Terra said.

In fact, seeing as you are only 4 days in and have no fish, I would simply dump all the water, refill the system, add a capful of Maxicrop every day and then test the Amm level 24hrs later, repeating this process until the Amm reaches 1.0 - 2.0ppm.

At that point you stop adding Maxicrop and start testing for Nitrite as well, watching for the Amm to start dropping off and the corresponding Nitrite spike. Once both the Amm & Nitrite have dropped to 0.0ppm, add some fingerlings, one for every 25L volume of wet gravel volume. Job done!

If you use the Maxicrop process for cycling, you can put seedlings in from day one and they will be well established by the time the fish go in and the system starts producing it's own Nitrates and other nutrients.

If you were to dump all the existing water and refill the system, as described above, there would still be traces of the Ammonia left in the system, so it's not as though you'd be starting the cycling process over completely from day one, you'd still basically be 4 days into cycling.
Author:  Ricardo_G [ Jun 4th, '19, 16:29 ]
Post subject:  Re: Start cycling... strange values
Thks for all the help.. Just to have sure that I didn´t make any mistake.. my test is in a different scale than others that I see in the internet.. the brand is «Sera». I post the images and my results are sign. My PH is 6.6 not 7 like apears in the table, so my value is less than 0.06... Maybe I´m confusing :think: :think: Dont know if I´m confusing ammonia and ammonium?!?! Sorry...

Attachments:
ammonia-test-chart.jpg
ammonia-test-chart.jpg [ 36.46 KiB | Viewed 8644 times ]
900ammonia--nh4-nh3--teszt.jpg
900ammonia--nh4-nh3--teszt.jpg [ 77.09 KiB | Viewed 8644 times ]
Author:  danny [ Jun 4th, '19, 21:54 ]
Post subject:  Re: Start cycling... strange values
"ammonia" commonly refers to both ammonium and ammonia, the test measures the combined total, referred to as TAN in technical literature (total ammonia nitrogen). NH4 and NH3 exist in a balance that depends on pH. Your value is 10 (TAN) - that's what matters right now.

I would definitely follow the advice of Terra and Damage, especially the bit about being patient lol. Although you might be able to speed the process up a bit by raising the pH of your system water a little; nitrifying bacteria perform best in pH around 7.5-8 , though its not really necessary. If you wanted to however, you could add a little potassium carbonate, which will buffer your water against pH fluctuations in the future, as well as providing potassium for plant growth (potassium is commonly deficient in AP, especially in new systems). If you do go this route, do it with caution and in a gradual way, exposure to wild pH swings probably wont do the bacteria any good.
Author:  Ricardo_G [ Jun 5th, '19, 04:33 ]
Post subject:  Re: Start cycling... strange values
Thks for the help! I follow your advice and empty all the water in the tank and start again. My PH is now 6.4 and the ammonia is 0 (maybe 0.5). I will try to find Maxicrop in some market but I think that doesn't exists in Portugal... What Maxicrop is? I find many descriptions. Thks for helping me! :thumbleft:
Author:  Ricardo_G [ Jun 6th, '19, 00:18 ]
Post subject:  Re: Start cycling... strange values
I didn´t add more ammonia and today I have a 8.0 PH, 0.5 ammonia, 0 NO2 and 25ppm NO3. Like I dont have Maxicrop, can I add some ammonia to reach the 1.0 or 2.0 ppm?

Thks
Author:  Mr Damage [ Jun 6th, '19, 11:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: Start cycling... strange values
You haven't added anything and your Ammonia went from 0.0ppm to 0.5ppm, and your pH went from 6.4 to 8.0, overnight, am I reading that correctly?

Did you do a water change at all, either partial or full?

As far what type of Maxicrop to use and where to get it, it can get a bit confusing, as they have a few different varieties now, plus they are sold in different bottles and with different labels in different countries.

I'd be looking for original Maxicrop, or Maxicrop with Iron. Below are a couple of links as to how they look in the UK, and from what I could see on the net, it is sold all over Europe, as the original company was bought out by Valagro Italy.

If it's not sold in Portugal, surely Amazon would be able to get some to your door pretty quickly. But first I would try going to or calling a few garden centres, plant nurseries etc near you and asking if they sell any liquid seaweed extract, apparently it is a big industry in Portugal, as there are large expanses of the kelp beds required for production of seaweed extracts.

https://www.solabiol.com/en/maxicrop-or ... tract-1-lt
https://www.solabiol.com/en/maxicrop-pl ... -iron-1-lt
Author:  Terra [ Jun 6th, '19, 11:38 ]
Post subject:  Re: Start cycling... strange values
Wait until your ammonia drops to zero

Then add a bit and see how long your system takes to convert the ammonia

Or add some fish 1 fish per 25 litres of wet gravel as described above

What we look for is no nitrite reading (dangerous to fish)

Once your system is "Cycled" you can slowly increase your feed rate , It takes time for bacteria to multiply in numbers

What we don't want in the early stages is any sudden surge in ammonia that the system cant handle

Such as a dead fish or fish waste building up in the fish tank or uneaten feed in fish tank ect

Once your system has aged a bit it will be more forgiving

What sort of Seaweed / Kelp liquid garden fertilizers are available to you

I use Seasol (Australia) its great for supplying trace elements , we have a range of seasol products that have added nutrients as well that we can use to supplement fruiting or leafy plants.

A big part of the skill in Aquaponics is balancing all the variables (as best you can) , Feed amounts , Fish numbers / Size , Plant varieties / Size / Season

If we overload our systems we end up with off the chart Nitrate readings and this will mess with plants and effect how they grow
Author:  Ricardo_G [ Jun 7th, '19, 02:56 ]
Post subject:  Re: Start cycling... strange values
I check the values today and the PH is realy correct. I measure with other tester. I change all the water of fish tank but still remains a little in the growing bed.. I didn´t find Maxicrop in Portugal and the best I can do is buy from Amazon, but the price is to expensive with deliver costs. I didn´t saw this message (not to put more amonia) and add a little yesterday.. then I read your posts! :( Now I have this values:

PH - 8.0
Ammonia ~3 mg/l
NO3 - 50 mg/l
NO2 - 0 mg/l

I buy a new test kit, more accurate, and this were the values that I obtain today. I´m sorry, and I´m grateful for your patience! I will not do nothing more until you comment to not make mistakes again. Thks
Author:  Mr Damage [ Jun 7th, '19, 10:45 ]
Post subject:  Re: Start cycling... strange values
3ppm is fine.
Author:  Ricardo_G [ Jun 7th, '19, 12:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: Start cycling... strange values
Mr Damage wrote:
3ppm is fine.
So now I just wait to ammonia drops to 0 and NO2 starts do apears?

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Author:  Ricardo_G [ Jun 11th, '19, 15:31 ]
Post subject:  Re: Start cycling... strange values
Hello!

This were my last values... Any advices? I already put 3 plants. (10/06/2019)

Thks for helping! ImageImage

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