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Stupidly elaborate idea.
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Author:  Colum Black-Byron [ Sep 1st, '15, 12:46 ]
Post subject:  Stupidly elaborate idea.
Well, I've been overthinking things. And I stumbled onto this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3_UdBvyicU

It's a water splitter, seems pretty basic, two electrodes, each one collects a different gas (oxygen and hydrogen), and then I pipe the oxygen one into the dwc bed.

Plants grow better with more oxygen in the water, trout will be happier when it warms up.

Plus it'd probably make a pretty cool YT video.

Thoughts?
Author:  Yavimaya [ Sep 1st, '15, 13:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupidly elaborate idea.
lol no colum.

i played with making hydrogen some years ago, its not feasible.


2 things, the oxygen you are putting into the water.... you are taking from the water.

the main thing..... for the process to work at any decent effeciency, you need an electrolyte in the water..... usually salt, but then you also get chlorine gas in high amounts coming off the same probe as the hydrogen IIRC.

I used tap water. There was a toxic looking residue build up inside the jar i used too.
Author:  BuiDoi [ Sep 1st, '15, 13:11 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupidly elaborate idea.
..
at what cost?

Just wondering if the possibly raised DO level will be worth the fairly high cost of electricity to split water, and then you will need salt for the conductivity..

I would think (not too often) that more pumped air, could more cheaply raise the dO higher than a smaller amount of pure O2.. just guessing :-(

PS - you suggest pumping to the DWC.. which is typically shallow, and thus I would BET that most of the O2 would break the surface and disappear..

and the other issue of all the other chemicals in the water that may be split with unknown consequences.. :upset:
( remembering that Pool Chlorination uses that exact process.. )
..
.
Author:  Yavimaya [ Sep 1st, '15, 13:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupidly elaborate idea.
at what cost?

huge cost.
Author:  GurkanYeniceri [ Sep 1st, '15, 13:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupidly elaborate idea.
It creates pure Oxygen, would the fish get high with it?

The problem is we are spending electricity for yet another device, sustainability goes out the window.
Author:  Colum Black-Byron [ Sep 1st, '15, 13:24 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupidly elaborate idea.
I'm not contemplating for a serious addition to my system, more tinkering to see if it raises the DO much. So electricity wouldn't have been a big issue.

However, chlorine gas going into the water wouldn't be the best idea, kind of poo poos it.

Oh well, it was a fun thought.
Author:  Yavimaya [ Sep 1st, '15, 13:40 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupidly elaborate idea.
the oxygen and hydrogen come off opposite probes, im 99% sure the chlorine comes off the hydrogen probe which could be vented easily.

the oxygen could be sent straight to the DWC, however like any bubble, will just float to the surface and leave.

The problem i had and forsee is that it took me i think about 20min of running a 12v car battery to get a balloon to start to fill, not expand, but to fill to the point where it starts expanding...... there was not enough pressure to inflate the balloon, but that could have been poor sealing and lack of age and experience.
Author:  BuiDoi [ Sep 1st, '15, 13:45 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupidly elaborate idea.
..
we ALL have these thoughts, that fall into the category "..and seemed like a good idea at the time.."

Again, I suspect that the net increase would be MINIMAL..

You would want to inject the O2, where it has maximum water contact time and turbulence.. eg.. in a plumbing run..

and that issue of Chlorine raises a side thought..

There are contraption for Automotive use, claiming to increase fuel efficiency by feeding both the hydrogen AND the oxygen back to the carby..
electricity is not an issue, but it does come at the cost of POWER lost to run the alternator to make that electricity..
But what of the possible chlorine or other break-downs from the necessary electrolyte..

CBB - there may be a better way, but what it is I don't know..
There might be a safe "Electrolyte" that would produce no harmful product, but that would mean on Off-Line hydrolysis device..

Still I would BET , that there could be more DO from extra AIR being pumped, than from O2 generation on a KwH basis, and so why the fancy crap when a bigger pump is safer..
..
.
Author:  Colum Black-Byron [ Sep 1st, '15, 13:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupidly elaborate idea.
What about oxygen mixed with the traditional air pump, upping the quantity of oxygen in the normal air pumped in?

Hook the side that doesn't bubbles (oxygen) direct to the air pump, and pump that?

I'd be going off the mains, so I could get a high voltage, but low amps, which should produce more bubbles.

And again, I'm tinkering, not adding a permenant thing to my system, the power bill would kill me, I'm just curious about how much it'd add, and if it'd be detectable.
Author:  Yavimaya [ Sep 1st, '15, 14:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupidly elaborate idea.
Image

Is the sort of thing you would need to keep the bubble suspended long enough to really help.
Author:  Colum Black-Byron [ Sep 1st, '15, 14:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupidly elaborate idea.
Have you got a link or name on what that's called?
Author:  Yavimaya [ Sep 1st, '15, 14:12 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupidly elaborate idea.
Both probes send off gas bubbles in a hyrogen generator.
there ARE other elecrolytes, hydrogen industry dont use salt. I cant remember what they use though.

your O2 injection woud work just fine, that aeration cone i posted above is for pure oxygen injection in AQ.

Im no electrician and dont know shit about it, but i would think unless you can somehow get the "electric kettle" route to work, i would worry you will just blow your power..... DC is needed yes??? Gunnagula?

I did setup 3 car batteries in series (??) to up the voltage, it definitely worked better. more volts = more gas.

As fasr as pumping the oxygen (and chlorine) into the engine... only if you like a rusted engine, chlorine gas is extremely good at causing rust.
Author:  Yavimaya [ Sep 1st, '15, 14:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupidly elaborate idea.
Colum Black-Byron wrote:
Have you got a link or name on what that's called?



oxygen cone, aeration cone, aquaculture cone.

they will all bring up pictures on google.


uni of north carolina, which put out the document where i first saw the idea (fishbarn_layout.pdf) call it a "downflow bubble contactor".
Author:  Colum Black-Byron [ Sep 1st, '15, 14:23 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupidly elaborate idea.
That gets me contemplating! Never a good thing.

Thanks Yav!
Author:  Yavimaya [ Sep 1st, '15, 14:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupidly elaborate idea.
lol good luck. :)
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