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| Ph http://byap.backyardmagazines.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2443 |
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| Author: | fatfredy [ Nov 24th, '07, 12:03 ] |
| Post subject: | Ph |
Hi i have some experance in big ap systems, and as such the micro system i am running is suffering, ether to much attenion to details or not enough? I'm in cairns where the tap water has a Ph off the scale alikaline, being the smart ass i am i designed the system to buffer acid, with shell grit in the growing medium with klinkin gravel. My system is still alkaline, i tried over feeding, always sent the acid through the roof in the past, didnt do a dam thing, so i talked to a friend at quantum ag, his surgestion was to mix up mollasas and water and add that to the water to bring up the bacteria, that worked sorta when from off the scale akaline to off the scale acid over night, some dead fish and the plants are still sick, massive water change and time and its back where i started. Im about to strip and clean the growing medium as its built up a lot of murk, and replant. I'm looking for longer term solutions to the alkaline problem or is it a problem? the fish were happy and the plants were growing fairly well (not as fast as i would have liked) before i started playing, should i just leave it a lone and get out of te way? I will attach pics before and after |
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| Author: | twintragics [ Nov 24th, '07, 12:45 ] |
| Post subject: | |
Hi fredy, u may have answered ur own question. I guess u know about plant nutrient lockouts at high pH and the relative toxicity of ammo and nitrite at high pH and all that boring stuff. Provided u have plenty aeration,ur fish will adapt to higher pH. What fish do u have by he way? You could also run a greater stocking density which means more respiration, production of CO2 and reduction in pH. U sound like u can handle that high stocking rate/ammo tightrope, if it turns to crap, it will just happen quickly. Try some chelated iron and seasol for micro nutrients, they may also help slightly to reduce alkalinity. U will prolly find even small amounts of these will give massive boosts to plant growth as the nutrients are there, the plants just can't access them. Sorry to be a long winded pain, it is my way. And welcome! (Pics man, we need pics.) |
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| Author: | fatfredy [ Nov 24th, '07, 13:24 ] | |||
| Post subject: | Re: Ph | |||
thanks for the info whats seasol? i use a little seaweed powder. i have about 8 gold fish left.
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| Author: | Delgrade [ Nov 24th, '07, 15:25 ] |
| Post subject: | |
seasol is a liquid seaweed concentrate so i reccon the same as your seaweed powder |
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| Author: | creative1 [ Nov 24th, '07, 15:48 ] |
| Post subject: | |
I think the seasol reference was tounge in cheek Del! |
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| Author: | RupertofOZ [ Nov 24th, '07, 16:10 ] |
| Post subject: | |
Fat Freddy, the pictures appear to be the $1200 aquaponics kit you sell via your website. What sort of fish and what stocking densities do you advise customers to stock with your kits? |
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| Author: | fatfredy [ Nov 24th, '07, 16:41 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ph |
yep its the 1200 kit, and its fallen apart soon as i played with it. i had 20 goldfish in it oridgnaly, gotta say bigger is easier. im deffinatly open to surgestions on controlling alkalinaty (need to lean to spell) ive never had this problem before. |
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| Author: | RupertofOZ [ Nov 24th, '07, 16:51 ] |
| Post subject: | |
Did you have the same problems when you had the twenty goldies in the system? Or has the problem got worse since you dropped the number of fish? What made you drop from 20 down to 8 goldies? |
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| Author: | fatfredy [ Nov 24th, '07, 20:46 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ph |
Yes the problem exsisted before, the number of fish droped when i induced a radical ph swing. the system was stable if off the scale alkaline. i lost about half the fish over night. |
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| Author: | janethesselberth [ Nov 24th, '07, 20:53 ] |
| Post subject: | |
Bouncing the pH around is VERY bad for fish, and can't be good for the plants either. Id say that's most of the problem right there. Freddy, what fish-keeping experience do you have? Did you actually have the system fully cycled? How long has it been operational? What is the natural buffering capacity of the water (I'm thinking you don't need the shell grit)? If you need to bring the pH down, filtering through peat or adding driftwood to the system would be much gentler. |
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| Author: | SlicerDicer [ Nov 25th, '07, 04:38 ] |
| Post subject: | |
Yeah I am a bit mystified by my PH too. I have had 0ppm on my nitrite for weeks now everytime I test. I have alot of fish in there and my ph stays right at 7.8-8.0 right in there? Hard to guess with my stupid ph meter anyway. Its always a darker green. It would be yellow or orange if it were in the PH of 6ish whats the deal with my bacteria not acidify the water? My tap water is PH of 8.5 I lower the PH with anything phosphoric acid, lemon juice, lime juice it lowers for the evening next day BAM back up... I have gone through 1fl Oz testing this bastard.. I need to go get ammonia and ph testing supplies 
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| Author: | janethesselberth [ Nov 25th, '07, 05:28 ] |
| Post subject: | |
Stop messing with the pH if you don't really really have to. 7.8 - 8.0 is not that bad. Stable pH is most important, and after the system has matured for 6-12 months, the pH will naturally come down. Then you may find that you have the opposite challenge (as I do), and need to use a modest buffer to pull the pH upwards. |
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| Author: | veggie boy [ Nov 25th, '07, 06:20 ] |
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I agree - the reason it is bouncing back up is that whatever the buffer is that is in your starting water must buffer at 7.8-8.0. |
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| Author: | dthawk [ Nov 25th, '07, 08:10 ] |
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I just had a conversation about this with Jeff Balduff, lead Techie with Crop King Inc. His feeling is that the Ph issue is something people make too big a deal about. In the end your buffer and the bacteria are going to establish where the system will end up. There are things you can do to tweak but little you can do to make significant long term change besides change medium and water source. The best AP systems are those that have matured and reached an equilibrium dictated by the different components of the system. The challenge then is to use plants that thrive under the conditions the system provides and not try to make the system accommodate the plants/fish. You are right, it is much easier to deal with balance in a much larger system. A small system is easier to change but can also go south in a heartbeat. IMHO leave things alone and let it all settle down for at LEAST 6 mos and learn to live with what the system will give you. |
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| Author: | RupertofOZ [ Nov 25th, '07, 09:40 ] |
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Wise words DT, and words that have been said many times here on the forum. I encourage all newcomers (regardless of their past experience) to carefully research and read through the wealth of material on this forum.... regarding starting up, stabilising and managing a system of almost every size and shape.... Built up by many members over time..... aquaponics is not an "exact" and at times "quantifiable" science, but there is a vast amount of experience and knowledge available here on the forum which can assist people There are aspects of aquaculture, hydroponics and aquarium practises and techniques that don't translate directly, or at times at all, to aquaponics...... it's a learning experience and each system is unique and different in its own way. Number one rule.... If you are going to change anything..... do it slowly and test and measure against known parameters..... Number two rule.... Never change more than one thing at a time. 
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