Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

I liked the old wikipedia article much better. It wasn't so narrow and there are some information quality issues in the current version. For example, I am unaware of saltwater AP systems -- last line of Brief Explaination section. I have heard folks mention the idea of a kelp/fish set-up, but I don't know that anyone is actually running one like that. Perhaps an example could be cited since it is such an unusual configuration.

As a second, more glaring example of a problem in the article, it talks about AP being strictly recirculating, yet also mentions it as "a method of reclaiming potable water from typical household sewage." Well, it wouldn't be recirculating then. Also, I am quite aware of greywater systems using plants to clean the water, but fish wouldn't be involved in cleaning the water. In an AP system, they are there to dirty the water. Also, greywater systems are used only for waste from sinks and showers, not toilets. "Typical household sewage" certainly includes sinks, showers (greywater) AND toilets (blackwater), and I would hate to have anyone trying to route their blackwater wastes through their AP system.

The above two items are just a sampling of my concerns about the article. Does anyone have a copy of the old wiki article? Perhaps it could be restored and enhanced upon rather than this re-write??

Martin, Rupe does bring up some valid concerns. I hate having inaccurate information out there about AP. For some of us, it is more than a fun little hobby. We have folks trying to feed kids in orphanages and the disadvantaged with this technology. None of us on this forum is afraid to admit when we don't know the answers, and we are all learning as we go. We share as much as we know freely, both our successes and our failures. If you are going to stand yourself up as an expert, yet provide inaccurate information, just remember that you could be causing the failure of a system that people are relying on to feed their children.

ROZ - You're the man.... for calling Martin out.

For the record, I am the one who wrote much of the previous article in Wiki, and it really pisses me off to see that this abuse.

Martin you need to put information back in about S&S and UVI, you need to remove references to commercial operations.

Historically, S&S (Tom Speraneo) pioneered ebb and flow. Rakocy pioneered DWC. That needs to be addressed in the article.

Man...this wreaks.

Suppose we should put in the Wiki article a reference to the "snake oil" attraction AP has to dreamers and entrepeuners?

Guys ...

In the spirit of this site,

Can you please do this in private?

and at the end ... let us know the consensus ..

I think Johnnie, that there is a rift being caused by a small segment of folks that needs to be looked at in an open forum...IMO. As Janet pointed out some very valid concerns with the article, I don't think she is railing. It needs to be discussed...in fact, it would be better and more "in the spirit" of this forum to discuss the article and perhaps shape what would is the Wiki definition of AP.

Discussion is good. No rift is necessary. Differences of opnion are acceptable.

Polite and well thought out argument is great! We all learn.

Previous thread was geting out of hand .. hence the need for Mod to close it.

But any arugment must be objective polite and respectable discussion. In good spirit. Not heated emotional or personal discussion.

No personal stuff. No Dissing! (Boring!)

PM is available for more "intimate" conversations.

Most of us are not entertained by argument. We can watch a soapie anytime!

We want to learn and get on with it!

So I poked my head up .. to just say ... a polit eminder regards mutual respect and manners when geting involved.

rules! (Queensbury, Dali Lama?) We are all working toward the same thing!

Cuddle does more good than trouble!

No more comment from me. (The subject matter does not really interest me personally!)

Yes Mike, I suspect there is a rift going on. Regardless, I would very much like to see accurate information out there. I don't like it when people interfer with accurate information or provide inaccurate information as though it were accurate. (Occupational hazard, I suppose.) Especially when people like Joyce, DTHawk and jtjf are using the information available to try to do good in the world by feeding hungry people. And of course there are our educators, trying to shape the next generation. So many people here see this as much more than a "fun little hobby", and rely on the internet for factual information.

Your article was very nice, Mike. I was pretty sure you were the one who worked on it so hard, but I didn't want to name names. Perhaps we could invite the forum to come up with an outline of what the wiki article should have, or use your article as a base, and flesh out sections where we have learned so much more since it was written.

Mike, do you have a back-up copy of your article? Can we maybe reconstruct it from the wiki history files? Do we have some wiki-experts who can help?

I do not have a back up of it darnit....I guess I was naive thinking it wouldn't get trampled on. But I have all the references and cites still on my harddrive.

I second the motion to solicit any of us who are Wiki experts. I struggled with the Wiki format and wish I knew someone more proficient.

One point I want to address with AP.

modern AP is an emerging practice that has invited many interpretations and entrepeneurial enterprise.

For the RECORD: Joel Malcom's work (and Travis Hughey's work) is based on S&S Aquafarms. There is no doubt since I have been following AP, since 1996, that Joel has influenced a segment of the AP movement toward homespun/homebrew systems (for lack of better definition). That is a very important part of modern AP. I suppose a reference in Wiki would stir up the pot over there in Australia....sorry bout that. But if anything, S&S Aquafarms needs to get credit where credit is due. Tom Spareneo was a very down to earth dude who made AP literally a backyard project. People like Joel Malcom and Travis Hughey took that a step further into self sustainability and accessibility, which is very much in the spirit of the New Alchemy origins of modern AP which is undisputed. Since modern AP has it's root stock firmly in permaculture, and given the spirit of permaculture, I think Joel and Travis have both made thier mark in AP sustainability and are worth mentioning in the Wiki article.

My .02

Mike,
Personally, it makes my blood boil that Wiki allows blatant overwriting on a definition by another contributor. Thier policy should be that no new definitions may override a previous definition (all definitions will be shown), and that all contributed definitions will be rejected for any links to a commercial site when the contributor is directly connected to said site. (Cut out the self promotion BS.)

Hopefully you can gather up your notes and overwrite the bogus definition that has been posted.

Johnnie,
I too would like to see everything being kept on a civilized and respectful level, but sometimes you've got to call it like you see it. To modify a popular saying, "if it looks like a skunk, walks like a skunk, and stinks like a skunk, then why are you waiting to see if it sprays you like a skunk?!"

Joel,
Isn't there something in the user agreement about "commercial promotion" by members? I know many other sites include that, and require any members to register thier business if they are going to promote it.

Kevin

Kevin,

Commercial promotion by members with vested interests in those goods or services is discouraged and will be removed if deemed appropriate. I have a business that sells aquaponic products but I don't really push my wares on the forum because I don't want this place to have a commercial slant to it, where every second question is answered with a link to a product for sale.

To all others, the previous locked thread about a QLD meet, was deleted by accident, while trying to clean it up, which was probably a good thing.. The second thread has been renamed and cleaned up a little to create this thread about wikipedia..

A question for those that know about wikipedias rules and regulations. I enquired with my service provider a while back about setting up a wiki and they were willing to set up the database for me.. Are you allowed to link from wikipedia to other wiki's????? If we start a wiki on Aquaponics then we can link from wikipedia to one purely on AP..

Joel that would be great. Also thank you for cleaning this up. My apologies if I got offensive. Anyway I think I can work on the article. Janet has helped link me back to my original article and Aquamad has volunteered to help organise it.

I would welcome any and all input and commentary as it developes.

While over at the wiki, could you please try and check out about linking to other wikis MF?

Do you think it would be worth having one purely on AP??

They can be open for public to edit, or closed for only certain people to modify..

It should be closed for certain people to edit. Obviously it is susceptible to interpretation and rewriting. Can we link other wikis? Paging Aquamad....Aquamad to the white courtesy phone please.....

Mike, I'd be delighted to review drafts of the outline or the article.

And I'd be happy for you to do that Janet.... you wrote thins darn good girl

Mike won't like me after I do a full review of the article. I can be painfully detailed in a document review. In my previous incarnation, I was an English teacher. Seriously, I write technical specifications for compooter applications. Hundreds of pages at a time, describing each field and each button and what it does to the database, and how the....never mind.