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Fishtank above growbed?
http://byap.backyardmagazines.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1142		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  Mr. M [ Jan 29th, '07, 10:28 ]
Post subject:  Fishtank above growbed?
i have my fishtank on a stand/frame, and I plan to put my growbeds underneath it, and then pump the water back up once it's been cleaned. How come all the designs that I've found online are for systems with the fish on the bottoms and plants on top? In my case it is merely a matter of elevation and visibility. I want the turtles to be more visible with the fish, and then below it I'll have grow lights and the grow bed and bio filters to handle the water and pump it back up. Please let me know if there is any ESSENTIAL or otherwise good reason to do things the way I've seen online with the fish at a lower elevation than the plants. THanks so much!!!
Author:  RupertofOZ [ Jan 29th, '07, 10:35 ]
Post subject: 
No problem doing it that way Mr. M...

Most people try to utlise the help of gravity to drain their beds via siphons or straight flood and drain then return to tank....

primarily because (i think) it means they can utilise cheaper pumps without the necessity for big pumps vs head height
Author:  janethesselberth [ Jan 29th, '07, 10:59 ]
Post subject: 
Methinks most people here are using sunlight vs artificial light. Sunlight is more accessible from the top of the system, hence, plants on the top. If you want to do it upside down, go for it. Using gravity to feed down to the grow beds might be a little tough if you aren't willing to drill the side of your tank, though.
Author:  GotFish? [ Jan 29th, '07, 12:04 ]
Post subject: 
another consideration, my fish like it quiet not bothered, my plants have not given me the impression they care so I keep them on top.
Author:  Nova [ Jan 29th, '07, 13:18 ]
Post subject: 
Also with the grow beds below the fish tank, there is more chance of the tank draining and leaving all the fish high and dry.

Nova
Author:  jtjf_1 [ Jan 29th, '07, 13:24 ]
Post subject: 
Also usually the fish tank is your largst volume of water. For fish tank at the bottom systems this means when there is a power outage most or all of the water will be saved. Where as with the higher than the growbeds system the water will need to have a stop valve in case of power outage.

JT
Author:  Troutman [ Jan 29th, '07, 17:37 ]
Post subject: 
You can do a system with the tanks higher than the grow beds but it will work best if you have another tank/tub at the lowest point to collect the water after it leaves the growbeds. The pump can be located in this tub and pump the water back into the tank.
Dont worry about the tank draining (incase of power shortage etc) as it wont happen if you have the water exit point at the top of the tank. You can still draw the water from the bottom of the tank by putting a 90 degree bend in the exit pipe and take it all the way to the bottom.

This system worked fine as you can see by the plant growth. It too is an indoor system using artificial light. The pump is located in the blue tub at the base.

Attachments:
Plants below tank.jpg
Plants below tank.jpg [ 162.97 KiB | Viewed 7060 times ]
Author:  Gary Donaldson [ Jan 29th, '07, 17:54 ]
Post subject:  Re: Fishtank above growbed?
Hi Troutman,

From my understanding of your description, I'd say you've got a basic syphon. In the event that something starts it.....like a blockage that suddenly clears itself.....it may drain your fish tank.

Gary
Author:  steve [ Jan 29th, '07, 20:14 ]
Post subject: 
i see where you're going garry and you're technically correct, but only if the volume of water outside of the tank is substantial enough to cause a reasonable water level rise in the tank.

i can picture what you're saying..... the water level rises more than normal due to blockage, the blockage clears and the water surges up with enough velocity to actually crest the elbow. right?

Would be an unlikely event yet a very real a possibility.

Adding an extra say 20cm vertical pipe height above the tank before elow'ing over could take up any freak "surge"

Trout man, saw the pic before i saw your name, and was thinking "who's this new member with the big mamma tanks?!" Nice
Author:  RupertofOZ [ Jan 29th, '07, 20:27 ]
Post subject: 
Hi Troutman, first time I've seen pictures of your system...

those tanks look great.... what are they and where did you get them?

Couldn't find your system pics anywhere, do you have your own thread anywhere???
Author:  Troutman [ Jan 29th, '07, 20:55 ]
Post subject: 
I should have explained it a bit better but what I have actually done to prevent an auto siphon is use a T piece where you take the 90 degree bend with the open part of the T facing upwards. This way if there is a blockage at the end of the pipe and the water rises it just goes in from the top of the open T. Having an air opening at the top prevents any auto siphon. Another way to achieve this with a 90 degree bend could be just to drill a few holes in the top pipe so air can enter the pipe. Pretty much what you suggested Steve but I just used the T piece rather than adding any extra pipe, it probably only rises an extra 70mm above the water level.

The system is not actually mine guys, it is one I set up last yr with a few friends. The tanks were Rhino fibreglass tanks from memory, pretty basic but also pretty cheap for aquaculture tanks. Dont know if they are an Aust wide company or just in WA. As you can see we didnt use any gravel for a growing media and used the plastic drum as a bio filter before running the water down through the growing channels. We grew lettuce (already eaten before I took this photo) Tomatoes and Cauliflower on the right hand side and Capsicums and Chillies down the left side.
Author:  Dave Donley [ Jan 29th, '07, 22:10 ]
Post subject: 
Troutman, the drain in my basement system is just like yours, I used a tee as well. One of the reasons was the drain was kind of slow because the diameter was too small, and I wondered if a bubble of air was stuck in the pipe. Using a tee to do the 90 degree turn keeps the air from getting trapped.
Author:  Caribean-grower [ Jan 30th, '07, 00:03 ]
Post subject: 
i saw once you can get it work do it. the only real reason is that most people use sunlight as janett said but let us know how this comes along
Author:  Mr. M [ Jan 30th, '07, 03:23 ]
Post subject: 
I like the photos, that helps certainly. With my system, I'm doing this in my living room, so size and such are an issue. What I was initially hoping to do was have between 1-3 "boxes" under the fish tank, the second or middle one would be the growbed while the first would be a small biofilter and the third would just have some big stones in it that we use in the turtle tank filter to help remove any big debris. I can hook up a battery backup that I have to keep it safe and working for a 12-18 hour period were the power to go out. I'm still having a little trouble with understanding how to prevent this siphon effect [I honestly thought that would be a great, easy, and effective way to get the water down to the growbed and then I could just pump it back up top to the tank.] Does this seem like it would work or no? Thanks again for the help.
Author:  greenedo [ Jan 30th, '07, 03:53 ]
Post subject: 
MM- you can use a siphon to get the water down, but just make sure that you have the bottom of the siphon inside the tank at a level that if the sump pump dies, you don't have a puddle in your livingroom. For example, if you have a 50-gal tank, and a 20-gal sump, make sure your siphon doesn't go further down your tank than 2/5 of the way down, that way, if you lose power, the tank siphons down to 30-gal, and stops. your sump is full, but no puddle, no dead fish.

When your power comes back on, and your sump kicks on, you will need to restart the siphon. If you want it to restart the siphon, you can pull a small amount of airline tubing from the top of the siphon and use that as a venturi for your return sump, then when the return pump starts, you will suck the air out of the pipe and restart the siphon.

If you were planning on using the undergravel filter as a pre-filter, T the lift tube at the point you want your siphon to break, and then elbow it above the water. The water inthe vertical extension will act as a trapand siphon your water from your undergrav until the water gets too low, then when the water gets too low, it will break the siphon. When the pump kicks in and starts refilling the tank, the "trap" will seal off the pipe, and the venturi will suck air from your siphon.

This will only work if the bottom pipe keeps water in it at the bottom like a DWC or some such. otherwise you won't be able to initiate the siphon that way.
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