Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Don't quote me on this, but isn't hydrochloric acid just good ole stomach acid? A good wash and they should be fine I think

that's whats been in our drums. They wash out very easily. Leave them in the sun for a few days afterwards to "sterilise" them and they are great.

I hope so, but I will recheck with the missus as I could be wrong.
She works at a assay lab (lots of nasties there).

Njh, I would LOVE to be able to do that. Unfortunately, there are a number of reasons/excuses for not doing it right now.
1. we can't afford it. I can manage a dollar or two every now and then for old fans etc, but not much more than that.
2. I don't have the mechanical know-how to build it. Axl has a bit and his father has a lot of knowledge, but time is a problem.
3. the fans are simple, even I can make them. They don't take long and don't take up much space.
4. apart from the fan blades, everything else is stuff we had. It tidies up the shed

Don't worry, as soon as I win lotto, I'm filling this place with solar panels and wind turbines and storage batteries. It has been my dream for years.

Until then, this will have to do.

Hydrochloric acid is also what they use in swimming pools. (from memory)

Now the a/c comp thing has passed he`s another!!
How about adding a car alternator.I left room for one on the drawing.
1)they are easy and cheap to get hold of
2)you could run 12v/24v.
3)Easy to turn(requires less force)
4)Easy to install and wire up to batteries.

Acids are very soluble in water... Just rinse it out a few times and all the acid should be gone. Maybe get a hard brush on the last wash and scrub it a bit. You can mix up a basic solution as a rinse to neutralise the acid but I think you will be OK.

I have to agree, Jaymie. Building a little wind turbine is much less expensive than installing PV panels. It's also simple technology that folks like us have a chance to repair if something goes awry. There are many different value sets at work here. njh is correct from the theoretical/efficiency standpoint, but there's more in play than that.

and then there is the issue of how much does it cost to save a buck?

The problem with commercial HCl is that it often contains considerable HF (hydrofluoric acid) which is a cumulative poison.

J: My point is that using electricity you can separate the production and use of the energy, and use the grid now and add other energy sources later. Of course, if you have all the bits and are happy with the performance, then that's great.

Car alternators are crap (low efficiency, high RPM, nasty impedance curve). If you want to generate electricity you would be much better off using a fischer and pykal washing machine smart drive motor, which don't need to spin fast to generate lots of volts. I believe there are many places that sell the drives, or you can cut one out of an old machine.

njh What Nash and Jaymie are looking at is simplicity. I iwll be building a windmill airetor for my system as well. What i want is something that will just mix air into the water the easiest way to do it is just to get a turbine of some type to turn paddle or something in the tank. If i were to take the wind power and convert it to electricity for my systesm I would need at a min: A turbine, batteries and a converter. Where as with this all i need is the turbine and something hooked up to it. Much less parts to fail or go wrong and also double insurance if my pump was to die from sucking in storm debries. With using electricty generated from the wind the power can still fail and usually turbines have a cut off for maximum speed. That means in the windiest times the turbine would not make any power as it would be to fast for it to create power. Where as my turbine mixer would just power on mabe trying to mince the fish but they would have oxygen untill i could fix whatever went wrong.

This looks relevant perhaps?

http://www.persimmongrove.org/Hatchery/Farm.html

I'm not sure what a converter is, but a wind turbine -> electricity is easy to buy (especially at lower power levels), and I can buy batteries from a shop within riding distance. The alternative proposed appears to be a complex and rather dangerous contraption designed to make fish fingers, and finger mash. If you aren't cycling your batteries regularly even cheap ones should last a very long time. You can also combine multiple energy sources (such as wind, PV and the grid).

I know it seems attractive to have some kind of mechanical system to power things, but I believe that electricity will win in general for efficiency, controllability, cost and safety.

Of course, I'm interested if someone gets it working. And it could be a very elegant solution.

My problem njh is i live in Indonesia this means Actually being able to get theses products is hard and the "grid" is not so strudy as it is in Australia. Think up to 5 hour power outages.

A converter would be needed to convert dc from solar or turbine power to ac so that i could run pumps and other things. As a dc powered pump in Indonesia is about as easy to find as a needle in a haystack.

Not to mention my system is built to teach kids how to make aquaponics viable in a village setting where mechanical is always more reliable than electrical.

As an example we run hydraulic ram pumps in the village for water supply . These work using Kenetic enery of flowing water to pump its self up a hill no elctricity needed (simple explanation). They have one moving part and they do a very good job of getting the water to where it is needed and the villagers can be trained in an hour to service and repair the pump. If you look at other people's opertaion they have set up some kind of generator to power their electric pump. This means when it all breaks down which it will they will need to bring a tech (usually from america or australia) to fix the problem.

Electricity is a great idea if all you have to do is plug in and you always have the grid as a back up, but in my real world where power does not come to your door step and most people have a grade 4 education mechanical is better. They understand the turbine turns a cog and then a shaft and that spins the paddle etc. if it breaks they can fix it and it is easy to train them on how it works and why.

What i am trying to get at is this we have electricity so easily availbale to us in the first world that it seem that it is the only option. But in a area where power is expensive (up to 40% of a monthly wage), unreliable (often power outages), and not understood it is not feasible and alternative forms of energy again are not cost effective here. Those solar powered pumps they install cost about $10,000 US or more and need maintnce and repair from a technician. Where as the hydraulic pump can be set up for under $500 US and be mainted by a member or members of the village.

PS Jonnie Virtual fish farming is a good idea minus it really is all the headaches and none of the joys (tasty bbq fish)

Hey johnie just saw this on your sim site.

[left]http://www.persimmongrove.org/Hatchery/RealLife/16Aerator.jpg[/left]









an elctric powerd fish finger maker. They actually use these here in Bali for the catfish ponds though they are all disel powered i belive.

Now we all need to go out and build our systems on sims so they can be 3d inteactive.