Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

OH, i misunderstood, i though you were not happy with the PH!

Yeh, CaCO3 is a weird one. In my experience it doesn't appear to raise the KH like sodium bi-carb does becasue it is pretty much insoluable in water.......until the co2 goes up and the ph comes down.

Its a good way to have buffering with out extreme KH, but i have noticed that over a period of 6 months in a heavily stocked aquarium the KH and GH will go up as the CaCO3 is dissolved.

helpful?

Hmmm. But I don't have good buffering according to my Mardel 5 in 1 Test.

pH 7.0
Total Alkalinity/Buffering 80 (or a little less)
Total Hardness 120 (maybe closer to 250 now)

Should I add a few spoonfuls of sodium bicarbonate? What is the commercial product "Buffer Up" made of?

I think I just have that weird water--harder than average, but poorly buffered. We used to have water that was 7.6 pH, 425 hardness, 180 buffering, but then they changed water suppliers on us. I just learned not to mess with the pH on that stuff!

Ah Ha! Here's even more info on pH, GH and KH. And I like how it gives very specific actions to take to raise or lower each quality of the water.

http://www.drhelm.com/aquarium/chemistry.html

I'm going to try a couple spoonfuls of sodium bi-carb to improve buffering.

Janet,

I wouldn't bother! Your PH is on the rise since adding the crushed coral, it is at 7.0 yes?

The crushed coral is obviously working.

It doesn't show up on the KH becasue its not water soluble unless it is needed if you catch my drisft.

Steve

OK, I will just be patient. I will add a fish instead. My Ammonia is gone, my nitrite has just a trace, and my nitrate is dropping. That will keep me entertained.

Thanks Steve. Your article on pH and hardness is just what I needed.

If I understand correctly, I can add a pH decreaser like HCL or sodium bisulfate until my water pH moves from 8.6 to say 6.8 and the carbonates are still there to buffer at that pH. I was concerned that I was eliminating buffering by overcoming it with acid.

My well water will always have the carbonate I need for buffering and I can overcome the high pH with acid. When my system is up and running, it will produce a move toward acidity thru biological processes and my water additions for transpiration and evaporation losses will drive it alkaline. Would it not be great if those balanced and I had a well buffered system with self balancing pH?

World peace would be nice too!

doug, sort of on thack, use the HCL as the bisulphate will be a down buffer.

i wouldn't go as low as 6.8, as the HCL WILL use up the buffering capability. take it to say 7.5 and then let it drift nwn naturally, the bacterial nitrification process generates acids which is why we like to have a well buffered system, when it drops to say 6.8 add some well water (you'll need to top up by this stage) and you should raise it back to 7.0 to 7.5, should work out well for you after some trials. If you have fish in there don't drop it all the way from 8.6 to 7.0 in one hit, try for 0.5 ph change each day, the fish will thank you for it.

Steve
That is excellant advice. In the spring(March), I need to get the system ready for fish. I will set the water to 7.5 with HCL and dump aqaurium filter into my AQ filter and add a little ammonia and wait for zero/zero on ammonia/nitrite. Then I will pickup the fish and bring them to their new home. Meanwhile the first seedlings will be moved into net pots on the rafts in the deep flow trough. There will be enough nutrient in the net pot media to support the plants until the fish have processed enough feed to add nutrients to the water. I will buy a pH meter and a DO meter from Aquatic Ecosystems before I get started. The pH meter is nice for watching pH change trends. My color perception on test kits only gives me about 0.5 resolution. The meters let you see shifts of 0.1 or 0.2. Hey, I am an engineer. No instrumentation; no fun!

I just moved the pH of the water in the aquarium I am starting up to ~6.8 and I added some outside pond filter sludge. I added 5ml of ammonia water and got 7ppm in the 20 gallons. Now I wait for zero/zero and get the fish. Pet stores want $7.00 for a channel catfish. I would like 5 for the aquarium. But I will pay $5 tops. In the spring, I can get 100 for $70. Unfortunately, the hatchery is too far to drive for a couple of fish.

I like you............

RE: the amonia water, it wasn't cloudy ammonia, was it? I've found it VERY hard to souce clear ammonia solution here with no added detergents.......anyway, if you're doing it this way there are some excellent articles on fishless cycling using ammonia. General gist of it is to add X amount of ammonia (enough to bring your water to say 2 ppm) repeat this when ammonia reaches 0 ppm. you'll notice the length of time getting shorter and shorter. like i said, google fishless cycling, there will be an indepth article somewhere. To my knowledge a once off application of ammonia is not enough.

Steve-
For fishless cycling, why not use human urine? Although the concentrations may be higher, you would be kick starting the cycle without the detergents, and running the same chemical decomposition as the fish would be, (unless you consume detergents on a regular basis).

It just seems that it would be a more organic method of starting a system cycling....

LOL!!!!! Well, that's certainly a creative approach, Greenedo...technically, human urine would be sterile and free of contaminents....but Yuck!!! Go pee in your own system, not mine.

I suppose you also should make sure someone with good hygiene ummm, contributes....so you don't introduce any fecal material. Don't just swish your kid's used diapers through the water.

I'm reminded of a friend who sent her two young boys out on Critter-Repellent Patrol around the edge of her garden. You can purchase bottled fox or wolf urine to sprinkle around to repel the rabbits from your garden. She didn't want to spend that money, so.... It seemed to work!

What part of North Carolina are you from, Greenedo? I was raised in Kinston, NC! Welcome--introduce yourself!

Janet-
I'm not advocating extreme amounts of peeing in your system! I'm just saying that it's easier to know what's in your pee than in a bottle of potion from Joe's Janitorial Supplies. Ammonia is not one of those substances that they make in a food grade! Also- you know your system is cycled if the urine is cleared out of the water in X amount of time. (easy way to test before sending little fishies to the great pond in the sky [or out to the sea] - flush!)

I'm in the Piedmont Triad area. I was just west of Winston-Salem in Lewisville. This summer I moved to High Point just south of I-40.

Introductions- I've been lurking for a while. I have been fascinated with hydro for a long time, and have had several experiments that have failed. Usually from too high a nutrient level burning the plants.
I have been steeped in the tradition of organic gardening, or as my dad calls it, scientific neglect.
I have interest in self-sufficiency, and winter veggies. If I can provide winter salad and salsa, I'll be happy. I've been gleaning ideas from here and the BarrelPonics group, and want to set a small system as a proof of concept. We'll see how this works into the schedule and budget.

Hi Greendo,
I'm not disagreeing from a chemical composition standpoint. Chemically, I agree that urine is probably safer than Joe the Janitor's Cleaner, although urine does have other compounds besides ammonia. (For example, urea--a fine mordant for dyeing yarn!) There is however, the risk that the 'contributor' has an infection or poor hygiene. Also, in general most people would find the idea of introducing bodily fluids into a food stream to be a bit repugnant. ("Hey Bob, come try my new marinade--I have a special secret ingredient!") Sure, probably safe enough, but Bob is gonna pound you if he finds out what that secret ingredient is!

Who was it that was asking if we all thought it was safe to drink our AP water a bit ago? Make a note: Don't drink Greenedo's water!

LOL-

Agreed. Definately wouldn't want to try the new marinade!

Just was thinking that if you're using fish pee and poop, the filter would do as well on that as on human. The chemical composition should be rather similar, although more concentrated. But I thought we were talking about cycling the bacteria.

You probably want to do a water change afterwards.

what if you let the urine stand in a bucket (or similar) for a few days, doesn't that gas the urea or something off? I'm fairly sure it increases the conc of the ammonia.