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PostPosted: May 22nd, '08, 09:43 
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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Joined: Dec 6th, '07, 01:13
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Location: central FL
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Location: USA, Florida, Yalaha
In a perfect world I would live on a hill with perfect temps for my fish and plants. I would dig a fish tank into the top of the hill and line it. I could then have a CLIFT set up that would overflow into grow beds also dug into the side of the hill further down like terraces. It might be nice to have them cascade a bit and perhaps use flouts to control the flood and drain. Then in the bottom there would be a pond/sump where the pump could either be float or timer controlled.

For a New system that is likely to be a small learning system, I often tell people to at least read the barrel ponics manual since building one of those will give one experience with plumging, gravel washing, and cycling. Other simple first time systems with a simple fish tank down low pumping up to a grow bed that either drains with auto siphon or flout or a timed pump and slow drain back into the fish tank. So long as stocking density is going to be low, these simple set ups are great for starter systems (because face it, few people can stop at just one system.)

I have a barrel ponics system (it was my first system.) I also have a big system that keeps growing. It started out as an in ground lined tank of aprox 600 gallons. Then I started building wood boxes that I lined with pond liner. I have loop siphons, Bell siphons, Flouts, and one bed with a separate pump on a timer with a slow drain. I have also added a second 300 gallon fish tank above ground that is constant level and overflows as a waterfall into the big tank.

Important notes I have.

Conserve your fall. My main tank is in ground to allow the grow beds to drain into it without having to have them too high up. It may be possible to get siphons to work with minimal fall but it can be real tricky.

Flouts work great but they take up lots of space.

I have found loop siphons to be easiest providing the flows are easy to control.

Few Larger grow beds require less plumbing parts than many little grow beds (this is a cost factor) Space can be a factor too, many small grow beds will probably take up more space than a similar volume large grow bed.

Get an energy efficient pump, especially if you are going to run it all the time. It will make a bit difference in the monthly electric bill. Even if the efficient pump costs more in the fist place it will pay the difference quickly in energy savings.

Things I would do differently, make certain plumbing connections easier to access. Trying to push a pipe through a uniseal from a cramped bad angle can pull muscles.
I would not bother with my "sump walk" the mid-line sump idea didn't really work. It is essentially operating as a large open drain pipe.

Trying to say what type of system my big system is difficult since it is growing and morphing at a random pace.
It is flood and drain. I won't change that.
I do use a gravel like media, definitely the way to go.
Most of it is under shade cloth. In future I would go with 50% rather than the 40%.
I have ball valves for the inflow to the grow beds. Definitely a good idea.

I don't know if this helps but it is what I got so far.


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PostPosted: May 22nd, '08, 17:32 
Bordering on Legend
Bordering on Legend

Joined: Apr 22nd, '08, 08:32
Posts: 476
Location: Wollongong
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This is exactly the sort of stuff that I think would have helped me. Knowing why a person prefers to do things a certain way is very handy.

I wasn't going to put my system in here because it is not an example that has the wrinkles ironed out. However I will put my money where my mouth is and use it as an example. Maybe some of my lessons learnt will be useful.

System Description
The system contains elements of CHIFT PIST in that the water level in the blue drum remains constant and the level in the rectangular tank(sump) fluctuates.

The pumps runs 20 minutes on, 1 hour off. Water is pumped from the rectangular tank (sump) and goes up into the half barrel grow beds . Excess water flowing from my oversized pump (5900 litres per hour) then continues down into the blue barrel. The blue barrel overflows back into the rectangular tank via a venturi drain style overflow completing the water flow.

Water flow is controlled by a ball valves at each grow bed and at the final outlet into the blue tank. The grow beds drain using loop syphons and I have a small drain at the bottom of each bed for when the loop syphon doesn't kick in at the end of the 20 minute pumping time.

As can be seen in the picture my tanks are partially buried and have covers and insulation.

Advantages/Why Did I Do It This Way
Due to limited space I wanted a compact system that had a small foot print. Having the tanks under the grow bed and syphoning directly back down was space efficient and in the summer the tanks will be shaded.

The big pump is good in that each grow bed fills and empties several time during the pumping cycle and it also removes solid from the sump very well. The venturi overflow also removes solids from the blue drum. The ball valves give good control over water flow. The massive amount of excess water flow also creates good aeration.

Buring, covering and insulating tanks provides a more stable temparature for fish and plants. It gets cold in Wollongong.

Disadvantages/Things I would have done differently.
I bought the big pump in anticipation of building a bigger system in the future. Despite the advantages of the big pump I may get a smaller one and use standpipes for drainage. My loop syphons make a lot of slurping noises and could upset my neighbours. The excess water flow is also noisy and if I pumped 24/7 with the big pump I would definitely get complaints.

I should also have used bigger tanks and buried them both as low as possible whilst still allowing the overflow to work. It is no fun banging my head on the bottom of my grow bed stand whilst trying to look into the blue barrel. Initially I was more interested in the vegetable side rather than the fish but digging a bigger deeper hole would have been easy in my sandy soil and would have given me better fish production capability.

Like I said this is not a system that contains tried and true methods for you to copy but is was the best I could come up with. Hope my mistakes help someone.


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PostPosted: May 22nd, '08, 17:35 
Bordering on Legend
Bordering on Legend

Joined: Apr 22nd, '08, 08:32
Posts: 476
Location: Wollongong
Gender: Male
Not sure how the text got there twice. Another mistake to learn from :lol:


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PostPosted: May 22nd, '08, 17:58 
Bordering on Legend
Bordering on Legend
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Joined: Nov 28th, '07, 11:59
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Location: SUTTON NSW
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Location: Sutton NSW
Hi FF,
Do the diagonal braces help much in the GB stand?
It looks like a good design (economical use of wood and easy access).


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PostPosted: May 23rd, '08, 11:33 
Bordering on Legend
Bordering on Legend

Joined: Apr 22nd, '08, 08:32
Posts: 476
Location: Wollongong
Gender: Male
The cross braces work very well and are essential, there is another one on the diagonal corner. With all that gravel up top the whole thing would be really unstable without bracing.

In keeping with the theme:

Advantages/Why I did things this way
Recycled hardwood is cheap, extremely durable and has no nasties like Copper Chrome Arsnic (CCA). I like the rustic look as well. I like the fact that I can dissmantle and reconfigure the stand easily i.e. with wider cross beams and another support beam I could fit 4 half barrels side by side or one larger grow bed.

Disavantages/Things I could have done differently.
I should have made the legs long enought to reach the top of the grow beds, 110ish instead of 90 cms. I could then have the side supports attached to the top of the grow beds to stop deformation.


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PostPosted: May 23rd, '08, 23:27 
Legend Member
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Joined: Feb 8th, '07, 11:18
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Location: Buckhead, The City of Atlanta, The State of Georgia, The Republic of the United States of America
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Creating a system thread with wrinkles is a good way to get others' help in ironing them out. If you look at my thread, all I do is talk about the wrinkles! :blackeye:


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PostPosted: May 24th, '08, 03:21 
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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Joined: Dec 6th, '07, 01:13
Posts: 10709
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Location: central FL
Gender: Female
Are you human?: YES at least mostly
Location: USA, Florida, Yalaha
wrinkles yes, pond liner will likely have lots of wrinkles unless the box/tank/bed is perfectly rectangular! Folding nice neat corners in the wood grow beds was easy but in the in ground pond/tank or the on ground monster grow bed, lots of wrinkles.


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